Westhaven - Shore power leads

[Guest]

Some caravans have a socket on the outside, so that the lead can be removed and stored seperately.

This would stop the cord getting in the way when not in use.

 

The 16 amp fuse on the tower is supplied so that vessels with proper 240V panels can suck plenty of juice without popping.

The problem at present is that your leads will not blow the marina fuse until 16 amps is reached.

Unless the appliance that is plugged into the cable has a built in breaker or fuse (unlikely), you are therefore exposing the appliance to current outside it's rating.

The 10 amp breaker inside the box is to protect anything plugged into it not the cable to the marina tower.

The board that KM has been using goes some way to solving the issue, but isn't waterproof or protected from physical damage.

[Guest]

I've been told by my marine sparky that I need to install a zinc anode on bulb of keel (impossible) or into the outside of the hull, to be compliant, as well as the other things people have mentioned in this thread, can anyone confirm if thats right?

[rigger 47]

The board that KM has been using goes some way to solving the issue, but isn't waterproof or protected from physical damage.

 

And how will the cable that has to run across the dock be protected from damage - trolley running over it, getting pinched between the pontoons.

 

Surely a portable unit similar to KM's one but with a few improvements would be a much better / safer option for smaller boats that have a tendency to get wet.

Something that can be stored in the boot of the car while the boat is out sailing seems like a bloody good idea.

 

Maybe some suggestions need to be put to the marinas.

[Murky 1]

The wording does say portable appliance. Do you think power tools will be exempt?

And what are they gonna do when I - wickedly and recklessly - decline to connect directly to the marina but instead run my extension lead off my mate Les's launch next door when I need power? With four yachts around him, I hope he puts in a lot of outlets.

[wheels 543]

India's looking pretty good at the mo. No electrical rules, not Biulding codes, what a sense of freedom.

Yes Electric drills and grinders and such are portable appliances. But doesn't your Marina have rules on working with power tools on your boat. Most won't allow it and have a specific work area you have to go to, or a yard. Most especially with grinding and welding.

I've been told by my marine sparky that I need to install a zinc anode on bulb of keel

I see no need in regards to the Eletrical situation we are discussing. But certainly for your own electrolysis protection if you don't already have one.

And how will the cable that has to run across the dock be protected from damage - trolley running over it, getting pinched between the pontoons.

The trolly should not be able to damage the cable, but the actual supply should be at a place that cables run direct to the boat and not across the Dock anyway.

The problem at present is that your leads will not blow the marina fuse until 16 amps is reached.

So is there any leagal requirement on size of conductor of supply lead? Because it should be a 2.5mm2 conductor to safely handle 16A and ensure the breaker tripped in a short. The 10A breakers at the boat end protect the individual appliances. Which is all what I assume you ment anyway Slacko.

 

Yes one way to go is to have a small dehumidifier, an inverter, a decent battery bank, a Solar panel of required size and a Wind charger and you can give the Marina the finger of disaproval at their outrages requirements and costs.

[Elenya 33]

We had this issue in Chaffers Marina anbout 10 years ago. We got an electrical inspector to look at our extension cord with drill or battery charger and write us a letter to confirm it did not need an EWOF. We had to be on the boat when the lead was plugged in. We now have a hard wired 240v system and have an EWOF for it which doesn't seem to onerous.

[ScottiE 174]

I wonder how many people have been electrocuted in Auckland marinas causing them to

 

a) die,

be hospitalised, or

c) drop the rum bucket in the piss

 

The problem for a marina is it only takes one muppet to plug his half cooked fraying lead, lean over the side with his angle grinder so that the plug falls in the piss for them to run into trouble - you can blame the previous gov't's decision to remove your own personal responsibilty from anything you do (unless they can tax you for it).

[wheels 543]

I think one of the issues is that many of the marinas are buying and installing those Power supply stand up things. It has the RCD/breaker and 16A recepticle on each side of it.But there is no 10A socket. If there was a 10A socket, then you could run an extension cord to use with a drill etc. The 16A system does not legally allow you to fit a 10A socket to the end of the flex. Plus you are supposed to have another RCD, which I think is stupid. However, the Marina RCD is set to go off at 60mA of current and I forget the time, but slightly slower than the Consumer RCD which should trigger at 30mA. The difference in current is so small that it would be far better to have the onbe RCD in the supply at 30mA and forget anything down stream.

[tuffyluffy 76]

Has anyone seen the damage that stray electrical currents do to alloy saildrives/hulls/rudder posts etc? It aint pretty or cheap

 

I think the new requirement is great and about time.

[Guest]

I think to completely avoid the risk of stray currents from the mains power you need to fit an isolating transformer and all the gubbins that entails.

Proving a sacrificial earth to the water is probably key to this as well. Otherwise the yacht potential can rise above the dock and zap you when you step across.

Maybe that is what the marine sparkie was talking to Gnasherdog about with the zinc.

[Guest]

Has anyone seen the damage that stray electrical currents do to alloy saildrives/hulls/rudder posts etc? It aint pretty or cheap

 

I think the new requirement is great and about time.

Knot if your boat doesn't actually need 240V. Many only run a dehumidifier for a month or 2 during winter in which case the current set-up is more than enough, way more.

 

Screwing a panel into my boat WILL KNOT make anything one iota safer for me, the boat, my neighbours or the marina itself, in fact it will make it more dangerous. So as I don't like dangerous I will be forced to break yet another law. I'd suggest I'm far from alone in that.

 

What's more all contractors in the marinas will be required to change the plugs on all power equipment used to one of them big fancy ones rather than the std 3 pinner. Having a fancy on one end and a std on the other, of a lead, is now a no-no. You know what that means do you? More cost to the boatie.

[Guest]

Grant

 

if the instalation is done correctly how come it is more dangerous? I think it is long overdue and if $350 is the difference between life and a shocking experience it is money in the bank. You don't recover from serious electric shocks. If you guys don't do it now it will cost you an extra $8.75 extra in GST after 1 october

[Norwegian Blue 10]

The problem for a marina is it only takes one muppet to plug his half cooked fraying lead, lean over the side with his angle grinder so that the plug falls in the piss for them to run into trouble - you can blame the previous gov't's decision to remove your own personal responsibilty from anything you do (unless they can tax you for it).

 

OK, so now that muppet has the installation done, all backsides are covered and he takes same said half cooked lead, plugs it in to the legal socket in the cabin and still leans over with his angle grinder? Then what?

 

The Darwin Awards were created to encouarage these people to do their thing and remove them from the gene pool

[Farrari 4]

I'm all for safer installations, especially if it reduces the stray currents floating around. I don't even mind so much the yearly EWOF or the installation costs if I get something in return for it. What I don't want is a fixed mounting on the yacht as it will most likely get in the way of everything.

 

I certainly don't want to have to pay the marina for fixed power as like KM, I only use 230V for the dehumidifier . And yes Wheels, the eco idea is probably a bit of a case of cut off my nose to spite my face so thats probably a no goer

 

I might talk to my sparkie mate to see how fixed fixed actually needs to be. Maybe a semi-removable wooden backplate with this magic box on it will suffice.

I can't see how it could be any safer permanently fixing this box vs. having it removable.

[Guest]

Grant

 

if the instalation is done correctly how come it is more dangerous? I think it is long overdue and if $350 is the difference between life and a shocking experience it is money in the bank. You don't recover from serious electric shocks. If you guys don't do it now it will cost you an extra $8.75 extra in GST after 1 october

 

Because it means I'll have reasonable sized box screwed to the boat with 15mts of big electrical cord with a huge plug hanging out of it and around the boat that I didn't before. There is nothing positive or safety enhancing about that in any way. Hence it'll be unsafer which means more dangerous.

 

Electrically wise the change will make no difference as what they want I already use but until now I had to option of having a cleaner so safer boat as I can leave the lead in the car.

 

Boat in use more dangerous, knot the electrical side as such.

 

I specifically asked can I make it 'de-mountable' so I can take it off for the racing season. The answer was 'No, permanent means 24/7/365'.

 

But who's to say the boat panel the electrical box is permanently attached too, isn't de-mountable

Yes Mr Inspector the Dist panel is bolted permanently to part of the boat ......................... and both are in the back of my ute

[Farrari 4]

I seem to remember that caravan leads have plugs on both ends, so the lead is removable. It's just the power box that isn't. It would be easy enough to mount the power box somewhere innocuous like in a locker.

 

Maybe its not such a big drama.

[smithy09 50]

I think we need to go back to basics and ask where in the electrical rules and standards this is required. There are portable leads available that have IP67 RCDs in them rated to 10A. They are not expensive. Surely if you fit the 16A plug that fits the marina outlet to the lead which is rated to 16A for its length, and at the other end it is fitted with a 10A combination breaker/RCCD, then you are covered? The lead could obtain an electrical warrant of fitness, and it is fit for purpose. As long as the dehumidifier/battery charger combination is drawing less than 10A (No problem) you are OK.

I could understand if that was what they wanted, but wanting a hard wired installation on the boat is just stupid.

I only have a 1993 copy of the electrical regs, and they say nothing about this. As long as the electrical installation has a WOF then it is fine, and that is in the regs specific to Marinas. Maybe the latest version which I think was 2000 is different. Not sure. There is certainly nothing I can find in AS/NZS 3000 (from year 2000) that says this must be implimented in this way, so further questions to the marina may be in order!

[smithy09 50]

OK. Found it. Electrical installations in Boating marinas shall comply with sections 1 and 2 of AS3004. Anyone got a copy?

[Farrari 4]

It is available here.

 

http://www.saiglobal.com/PDFTemp/Previews/OSH/as/as3000/3000/3004.pdf

[tuffyluffy 76]

Knot if your boat doesn't actually need 240V. Many only run a dehumidifier for a month or 2 during winter in which case the current set-up is more than enough, way more.

 

Screwing a panel into my boat WILL KNOT make anything one iota safer for me, the boat, my neighbours or the marina itself, in fact it will make it more dangerous. So as I don't like dangerous I will be forced to break yet another law. I'd suggest I'm far from alone in that.

 

Its not my electrical stray currents im worried about. Its the live-aboard muppets and their home wired shyt boxes that concern me. My saildrive (with brand new Zinc) got nicely eaten by the current one of these muppets was dumping into the water in the next door berth.

 

Try parking your boat next to a badly wired steel cruiser and watch what happens to your metal dangly bits