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Westhaven - Shore power leads


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you don't require a bonded earth point on the boat to be safe!

Oh and to add to that, many of the other requirements beng suggested. But it seems that someone is pushing rules that have not been documented.

It is appearing more and more to be so.

 

I've gone deep. Stand by............

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If the sparkie installs the RCD to supply the entire box he/she then has to certify that the wiring for the entire house is up to spec.

The homeowner isn't going to like the bill for that.

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Actually it brings up a similar question I have had for awhile for Houses. If you have a house pre RCD days, and you now get a new circuit installed, you have to have installed an RCCD on that new circuit. Yet all the original circuits can remain the old way. So why don't they install an RCD on the main feed thus covering the entire installation and keep the simple breaker on each individual circuit.

 

yep, doesn't make sense to me either but them's the rules. redid the kitchen a few years back, including running a new circuit for the dishwasher, gas hob and extractor fan, all stuff that was mostly tucked away (electrically speaking) and you never actually used the plug. The requirement was for an RCD for this but not the rest of the house. I talked to the electrician and put in a proper sized one to protect the while house, made more sense.

 

The problem i see with arguing the rights or wrongs of the rules is the rules become a bit irrelevant. The marina can't specify anything that is less than what the rules require, but if they (marinas) have gone over the top, as is being suggested and it is actually more than the regs say...well it doesn't matter....

 

If they chose to go with what they think, that may be in excess of what is required, but they can set the conditions under which they will supply power to your boat, if you don't like their conditions you have the choice of not connecting the power or finding a marina closer aligned to the regs.

 

Not suggesting this is the right approach, but it could be a possibility....then the maria 'standard' becomes the de facto rule, bugger :D

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If the sparkie installs the RCD to supply the entire box he/she then has to certify that the wiring for the entire house is up to spec.

Doh, of course. And there we see the stupidity of the Law. It would be better to have a safety device installed to protect the possability that the old wiring could be dodgy, but because it now makes the sparky liable, the more logical is not done.

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If the sparkie installs the RCD to supply the entire box he/she then has to certify that the wiring for the entire house is up to spec.

Doh, of course. And there we see the stupidity of the Law. It would be better to have a safety device installed to protect the possability that the old wiring could be dodgy, but because it now makes the sparky liable, the more logical is not done.

Again, I would like to see where this is mentioned in the NZ electrical regs, that it is the sparky's responsibility to ensure the whole house is OK just because he fits an RCCD to the main board. I'm willing to bet that it doesn't exist... So much disinformation, and mainly centred around making money in one form or another....

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I have been digging up some info. This is fromt he Ministry of economic development.

But Please Note: This info on their website is dated March 2006. Typical. So I can't be assured that this is up to date relevant info.

 

Q. Can a Pleasure Vessel be Connected to a 10 amp Flat Pin Socket Outlet in a Marina?

 

A. No, as regulation 98 (3) (a) requires the vessel to be supplied with electricity from a 16 amp IEC 60309 (round pin) or a 15 amp flat pin socket outlet. Likewise, the same requirement applies to a caravan in a caravan park. However, 10 amp flat pin socket outlets may be used to supply an appliance on a boat such as a drill or battery charger.

Q. Do You Have to Have RCDs on the Socket Outlets in a Marina?

 

A. RCDs are one means of compliance with regulation 98 (3) (B). Other solutions are the use of isolating transformers or galvanic isolators.

Q. What are Galvanic Isolators and How do they Operate?

 

A. Refer to AS/NZS 3004 clauses 1.4.3 and 3.6.7.

Q. Are Marina Connections for Very Large Pleasure Vessels Covered by the Regulations?

 

A. AS/NZS 3004 permits the use of a multi-phase supply for those vessels covered by AS/NZS 3004. However, most large vessels would be subject to Maritime Safety Authority (MSA) survey and would therefore be excluded from coverage by the Electricity Regulations.

Q. In Marinas, can 10A Sockets be Used for the Connection of Pleasure Vessels?

 

A. The Electricity Amendment Regulations 2002 and AS/NZS 3004 require socket outlets for the connection of pleasure vessels to be rated 15A or greater for IEC 60309 or AS/NZS 3112 types. The use of 10 amp socket outlets, which must be RCD or isolating transformer protected, is limited to use for general purposes and not permitted for connectable installation connections.

More to come.

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Here's more.I assume you replace Caravan with Boat. But note, there is a comment here that you do not have to retrospectivily change old wiring systems. Hmmmm. So I would like to know if this has been changed, applies to Boats also or????

 

Q. In What Instances is RCD Protection Required for Caravans (Connectable Installations)?

 

A. In all new caravans/motor homes, etc, RCD protection is required when AS/NZS 3001 is being used as a means of compliance to provide personal protection. Note: RCDs in caravans are required to be double pole.

Q. Caravans Manufactured to AS/NZS 3000 Have an In-line RCD in the Supply Cord. Why Change to an RCD in the Caravan if the In-line RCD Needs Replacing?

 

A. The in-line RCDs are failing due to water ingress through the IEC 60309 plug top and flexible cable cores and are suffering mechanical damage due to being dropped or being run over by vehicles. RCD protection mounted in the switchboard protects the caravan installation but the supply lead is unprotected. However, this is no different to the majority of caravan supply leads when connected in a caravan park by an IEC 60309 plug.

Q. Does a Caravan Have to be Upgraded to the New RCD Requirements and Have the Neutral to Earth Link Removed to Obtain the Next WoEF?

 

A. No. Upgrading to new RCD requirements is not retrospective or mandated by the Electricity Regulations. However, upgrading is recommended. A bulletin detailing the work required for the upgrade is available from Energy Safety (Ph. 0508 377 4636) or download from here.

 

Q. What are the RCD Requirements for a Permanently Connected Caravan?

 

A. If a caravan is permanently connected to a supply of electricity, the provisions of AS/NZS 3000 apply, as the caravan then forms part of the electrical installation providing the supply. Refer to AS/NZS 3001 clause 1.1(i).

Q. What Proposals are Being Considered to Upgrade Old Caravans to AS/NZS 3001 Requirements to Provide RCD Protection?

 

A. While it is not proposed at this time to mandate upgrading of existing caravans to AS/NZS 3001 requirements (the provision of a RCD in the caravan switchboard and removal of neutral to earth link), a bulletin detailing the work required for the upgrade is available from Energy Safety (Ph. 0508 377 4636) or download from here.

Q. What are the Requirements for RCDs in Caravan Park Service Pillars?

 

A. Socket outlets to AS/NZS 3112 (three pin flat pin socket outlets) are required to be RCD protected. Socket outlets to IEC 60309 are not required to be RCD protected.

Q. What Internal Wiring Sizes are Permitted for Existing Caravans for WoEF Renewals?

 

A. The caravan internal wiring which complied with the Electrical Wiring Regulations, ECP 1 or AS/NZS 3000 section 701 requirements in force when the caravan was manufactured are acceptable for the renewal of a WoEF.

Q. Who may Undertake Caravan Park Re-inspections?

 

A. Electrical inspectors with a valid practising licence or those approved by the Secretary. The requirements for re-inspection are contained in NZS 3019.

Q. What are the Requirements for Caravan On-board Generators?

 

A. The requirements for the changeover switch to select the supply source to which the caravan is to be connected is given in AS/NZS 3001 clause 3.4.4.2 and requires both active and neutral supply connections to be switched by a multi-pole switch.

 

If the on-board generator is connected with one side of generator output earthed to the caravan installation earth bar, the switchboard protective devices and fitting switches may be single pole and are connected in the unearthed pole. The generator neutral to earth connection must only be present when the caravan is being supplied by the generator.

 

If the on-board generator is connected and operated as an isolated supply, the switchboard protective devices and fitting switches must be double pole and are connected in the active and neutral poles.

Q. What are the Requirements for Caravans Connected to Domestic Installations?

 

A. Connection to the domestic installation may be made by either an IEC 60309 16A socket outlet or a 15A or greater AS/NZS 3112 socket outlet (three pin flat pin) with an minimum IP rating of IPX4 or higher if in a exposed position. The socket outlet must be protected by an MCB with a rating not greater than the socket rating. An RCD should also be provided which would require the caravan to be upgraded to remove the neutral to earth link (if installed) and installation of a RCBO.

Q. What are the Requirements for Connecting Fire Service Appliances to the Electricity Supply?

 

A. Regulation 98 applies, which also requires that supplementary protection against electric shock (RCD or isolating transformer) is to be provided in the supply for the connection of the fire appliance. AS/NZS 3001 requirements apply to the fire appliance.

Q. Is Connection by 15A Three Pin Flat Pin Permissible for a Connectable Installation?

 

A. For caravans in a caravan park and pleasure vessels in a marina, either a 16 amp IEC 60309 (round pin) or a 15A 3 pin flat plug are options. There are no restrictions on the types of plugs and sockets that can be used for the supply of connectable installations in all other locations. For all supplies to connectable installations, excepting IEC 60309 types in caravan parks, supplementary protection against electric shock is required. Protection by an RCD or isolating transformer is an acceptable means of providing such supplementary protection. Each socket must be protected by an MCB of the same rating as the socket outlet.

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The actual regulation for Boats is AS/NZS3004.2:2008

 

Here is the answer to one question.

A WoEF may be issued by an electrical inspector or the person who certified the installation. The WoEF must be issued in accordance with AS/NZS 3004.2 for pleasure vessels or AS/NZS 3001 otherwise. The WoEF is valid for four years.

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Are currently discussing this with several inspectors and the like. See many comments etc and firstly must comment that most boats are NOT connected to the marina and would suggest you do not go down this road yet.

Boats that are connected to shore power as are some of the larger vessels are then required to meet AS/NZS 3004. But how many of you connect your boat to power??? A typical yacht/launch that has a de-humidifier at the end of a lead is not required to have a EWOF.

When the vessel is not wired then it is not a connectable installation and AS/NZS 3004:2008 and Reg 78 do not apply.

So the question is what type of lead is acceptable and what is allowed to be plugged into this lead. A marina can make additional rules and i would suggest they do, such as the number of appliances that can be used and perhaps that these appliances also need to be tested and tagged.

Will keep you all posted but at present i would not put a 230V connection to my boat.

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I believe otto's comments are true and the most practical.

 

The power supply to the marina have 16Amp round pin outlet sockets and have a 30Amp RCD, I believe.

 

This is 3 times what most extension leads can handle, as most leads are 10Amp capacity.

 

So an appliance (dehumidifer 10amp) can continue in a shower of sparks and NOT trip the 30Amp RCD on the marina. It might only be burning your boat at say 20Amps. Well enough to burn your 10Amp applianaces (dehumidifier, battery Charger, Vaccum cleaner, electric jug, fan heater etc) but knot enough to trip the marina RCD to stop the marina power flowing onto your boat.

 

For your safety (and their insurers), they want each power lead going onboard to have an appropriated sized (=> 10Amp) RCD before the power comes out of the 10Amp socket (normal domestic 3 angled pins). Put simply, the Marina RCDs are too BIG for you small loads.

 

1). Easiest solution is to buy a power lead with an inbuilt RCD, but the problem is the RCD is normally closer to the Plug end than the socket. Given voltage drop, ease of testing and resetting, having both the 30Amp and 10 Amp RCDs beside each other, outside in the rain and howling gale on the marina, is possibly knot the best / safest solution.

 

2). Put a RCD 10 Amp and 10Amp Fuse beside the socket end of the extension lead. This will normally be left below when a dehumidifier is working overnight, easy to reach and manually switch off if required, rather than trying to pull apart the glowing, melting powerleads with your wet hands.

 

A simple plastic electical box with RCD, Fuse and switched outlet socket (as at home) should suffice. There are some multi outlet socket boxes available but I dont know if they have both an RCD and Fuse(s) and switch(es) on each 10Amp outlet.

 

This plastic box could be screwed to a piece of plywood, around which the extension lead can be coiled when knot required.

 

3) Have the full Monty with socket on transom, going into smart transformer for batteries, 240V sockets to each cabin, Hot pressurised showers and imersion + heat exchanger hot water clyinder, Microwave, Breadmaker, toasted sandwichmaker, piemaker, hair dryers, curling tongs, electric blankets to name but a few absolute essentails for onboard living doing Marina to Marina voyages.

WHAT :?: Hauraki Gulf is knot part of the Med in Europe :?:

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The power supply to the marina have 16Amp round pin outlet sockets and have a 30Amp RCD, I believe.

Just to clarify, an RCD is not a circuit breaker. It will not trip at any set load point. It will only trip if it detects a fault current.

An RCCB is an RCD with a Circuit breaker. This device will trip with both load point and fault current.

A 16A rated socket is normally protected by a 16A breaker. However, in the case of twin 16A sockets on one breaker, it will most likely be a 30A breaker protecting the two sockets.

The breaker is there to protect the cable immediately down stream of it. This cable has to be capable of handling the load the breaker is rated at, or it will have the chance of turning into a heater and setting fire to the boat. When a 10A or 2400W appliance is powered, it must have a breaker capable of tripping if a fault should develop directly upstream of that appliance. So as the 10A breaker trips before the 30A and the 10A appliance and it'ssupply lead, does not become the fire starter.

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I believe otto's comments are true and the most practical.

Concur

The power supply to the marina have 16Amp round pin outlet sockets and have a 30Amp RCD, I believe.

 

This is 3 times what most extension leads can handle, as most leads are 10Amp capacity.

I'm pretty sure you'll find all marinas will be insisting on 16amp leads. They are all standardising and I know everything up to your boat will have to be 16amp minimum. Once there........ we'll have to wait and see how it pans out by the looks.

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