Jump to content

Queens Wharf Dolphins - Give us more ammo


Recommended Posts

Trust me, there are far smarter people than KM involved in this (no offence KM).

Even among professional bodies, there is a lack of understanding of the RMA process, planning rules and how the Environment Court works.

Giving advice on areas beyond you knowledge, especially matters of law, risk and consequences, can lead to, how do we say? adverse outcomes.

There was a gathering today to get names etc, all went well and it's all a happening thing.

 

We are off to Environment Court Mediation probably in August. That sound like the process you are more clued up on than me?

 

 

When I say 'more clued up on' I really mean 'I have no idea at all, do you enuff that you can give me a rough overview of the process that's coming?' :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a gathering today to get names etc, all went well and it's all a happening thing.

 

We are off to Environment Court Mediation probably in August. That sound like the process you are more clued up on than me?

 

 

When I say 'more clued up on' I really mean 'I have no idea at all, do you enuff that you can give me a rough overview of the process that's coming?' :)

I've no formal knowledge of RMA laws and haven't ever been involved in mediation, my involvement has been the same as yours, 'expert witness'. But I have co-habitted with a planning team for a while, including one of said team who is now an Environment Court Commissioner. That and I've been locked in a room on numerous occasions with Environmental Lawyers who driver flasher cars than I've even scene, and earn more taking a pee than I do in a whole day. So while I can't explain the difference between a restricted discretionary activity, a notifiable permitted activity and a non notifiable restricted activity, I reckon I've got a vague understanding (at a high level) of the meditation process.

 

Effectively, its an opportunity for a bit of horse trading before you go to war. War being a full environment court process consisting of several years and more than a mil each in fees. I'm not down on the subtleties like if the hearing commissioners are present, if they run it, or if they give a list of the issues they see that need to be resolved.

 

Probably the best example of horse trading is a classic land development dispute. Lets say a developer wants to build a retirement village in an established suburb (like Devonport for example). None of the locals want the development, but its permitted under the Council's planning rules. A lobby group of concern citizens is created, and they work to stymie the development. The hearing commissioners have recommended consent be granted, but the lobby group dig in and lodge an appeal on a technicality. The technicality can mean BS to the locals, but its a way of holding up the development. The fundamental problem for the community is height of the buildings and shading of existing properties. Through mediation, the developer agrees to drop the height of the road fronting building by a story (lets say from 5 to 4) and to re-jig the site to give more set back from the existing roads (i.e. less shading).

 

The developer looses yield (number of apartments), but by agreeing to dropping a floor off the buildings, he avoids a two year delay to his project (which in land development terms is a millennium). The locals get some meaningful concessions to make the development more palatable, the developer gives up a bit of yield, but avoids a substantial delay, and everyone moves on, avoid getting bogged down in the environment court.

 

In the case of the wharf extension, it may be that the commissioners have cottoned on to the "McDuff patented bondage system" for tieing up cruise ships, which means a wharf extension isn't actually needed. The commissioners can't tell POAL to adopt the McDuff bondage system, but they can direct the parties to sit down and talk (mediate). I believe (but I'm not sure) that the commissioners can list the issues as they see it, along the lines of "we can issues consent accept for x, y and z". 

 

I would imagine that if an option is put forward that means POAL can get their increased revenue from the bigger cruise ships without doing the wharf extension, they'd take it, in the face of several years in the environment court. The other major factor at the moment is the upcoming Mayoral election. It is very common for contentious issues to be kicked past the election campaign period (such as dropping speed limits on all of Aucklands rural roads).  Punuku may use mediation as a trojan horse to shut up any discontent during the election cycle. Or they may play nice before and then play nasty after. Alternatively, they may actually work hard for a settlement before the election, to make their political master look good. Or to avoid an un-sympathetic Mayor winning the election and making them drop their pants. Who Knows?

 

What I do know is that the lawyers still run the mediation process, and will most likely play things very close to their chest (on both sides), but that there is a big political aspect to mediation as well, more so in this case. The other aspect would be the number of interested but not necessarily cohesive parties on the 'against' side. Are the Heart of the City and Public Transport lobby people involved in this, or is it just the AYBA side? I'd expect Punuku / POAL to pull out every dirty trick in the book, given the election issues, and that this is not their first rodeo...

 

Either way, it will be an exciting ride, going through the process, and much more is at stake given this is occurring smack on the election cycle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no need to retain, dredge or doing anything like that if they get the OK to build the wharf extension. 

If it gets built or not will not be influenced by the AC, it is not going to affect any plans for that.

So I can't see why anything AC will be of any concern to the EC.

 

But hey, ya never know.

Link to post
Share on other sites

These big cruise ships are super safe, I see no issues at all bringing them down the Rangi Channel and parking them in downtown Auckland. Super reliable. Don't even need their own tugs for parking...

 

A cruise ship trying to leave Wellington harbour has called for assistance after suffering mechanical issues. 

The Ovation of the Seas - the largest cruise ship to regularly visit Wellington - came into trouble Monday evening. 

Harbour master Grant Nalder told Stuff the ship called for tugs just after 7.30pm while it was exiting the harbour, just off the coast of Seatoun. 

"The situation is evolving," he said.

An issue with the propulsion engines caused the ship to stop, according to Nalder.

Two CentrePort tugs were holding the ship, carrying just over 6000 people, in place while the problem was being investigated. 

"She is the middle of the channel, so she is not in any danger," he said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/117517342/ovation-of-the-seas-cruise-ship-comes-to-a-stop-in-wellington-harbour

 

Is the Wellington Harbour entrance channel, just off Seatoun, is that very far from where the Wahine sunk?

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Rehabilitated said:

The mayor and councillors once again to scared to increase rates and it make easier for them to be paid. Like automatic payments deducted from their pay weekly or FN. Borrow cheap finance from O/S. Seems a ploy to bait the government into giving more money to Aucklanders in the name of saving jobs. Increase the rates to what every it takes and other chargers, (public transport to the true costs including depreciation and replacements.) like the commercial sector and air NZ have to.

If you're talking charging users the true costs then wait until people driving have to pay the true costs of roads and parking. There's an awful lot of public space being used and maintained that if user pays was brought to bear would cause many some considerable financial pain.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, erice said:

Well, if there is no cruise ship industry, you'd be hard pushed to find a consultant to cook up an economic benefits report that justifies the, what was it? $16mil? for tieing up bigger cruise ships. How long will it be before those big cruise ships are parked on a beach in India, being broken down for scrap?

The new world order doesn't have cruise ships or a cruise industry in the plan...

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Rehabilitated said:

Another false dream 

 

1 hour ago, Rehabilitated said:

Who cares?😎 I have quite a few on mine. Do they care? No.

I care rehab. You are just trashing what used to be a really good forum. You post innane twaddlebollocks like the above, and no one can be bothered interacting on the thread, or the forum. 

Go have a look at the number of threads where you were the last person to post. Right now its 8 in marine talk, 14 in smalltalk, including threads where you made 10 unanswered posts, and that is not counting all the other topic listings where you posted some nonsense that no one can be bothered with.

I've tried interacting with you, I've tried being kind, and you just don't get it, you just post rubbish like that. So many people have you on ignore it is just not funny. You post in every thread, on every topic, so there is nothing left for anyone to read if they have you on ignore. You post regardless of whether or not you've got something to add, have some insight, or some knowledge to pass on.

You, Sir, are killing this forum, single handedly.

How many people here have rehab on ignore?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is honest feedback you are getting here Rehab, please take the time to give it some consideration, rather than dismissing it out of hand.

Go and have a look at the topic listings and thread listings and have a count up of the number of threads where you have made the last post. You will see it is entirely out of proportion to any other user. I'm putting it to you that that is because no one can be bothered interacting with you, due to the frequency and quality (or lack of) of your posts. There is a high number of people that have you on ignore, that is not normal. Please go and have a look at what I am talking about, and give it some thought. Ask yourself why that might be? And perhaps what you could do to change that?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, splat said:

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


 Mark Twain

True splat. But if something doesnt change soon, there wont be a forum here anymore.

  • Upvote 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Fish said:

True splat. But if something doesnt change soon, there wont be a forum here anymore.

I agree.  It is not bullying etc as rehab may argue, he is just plainly a pain in the arse.

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30/05/2020 at 8:08 AM, Fish said:

Well, if there is no cruise ship industry, you'd be hard pushed to find a consultant to cook up an economic benefits report that justifies the, what was it? $16mil? for tieing up bigger cruise ships. How long will it be before those big cruise ships are parked on a beach in India, being broken down for scrap?

The new world order doesn't have cruise ships or a cruise industry in the plan...

 

On 5/06/2020 at 3:14 AM, Rehabilitated said:

Another false dream 

Hi Rehab,

Any chance you could elaborate on what you meant with this post? It was in response to my post above. What exactly is a false dream? When you say another, do you mean there is more than one false dream?

What has dreams got to do with the collapse of the cruise ship industry, Auckland Council's emergency budget and the scrapping of the wharf extension project?

It looks like more nonsensical twaddlebollocks from you, and is just fouling up the forum like some sort of invasive marine slime. But that is what I think, I'm keen to hear your point of view on what you meant with this insightful post.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...