Call for Licensing

[Crazyhorse 47]

Not necessarily.

One of the licence types, an Aussie based on, suitable to use for chartering yachts in Europe, just requires you to get a tinnie off the wharf, do a loop, and back onto the wharf.

Oh, and pay a fee...

 

 

And,

if people need to learn the COLREGS, why aren't there loads of crashes / accidents / property damage?

We dont hear about it.

[dutyfree 170]

We don't hear about it because there are stuff all actual incidents.  Worst offenders for exceeding 5 knots in Westhaven - Yachts.  Worse offenders for coming too close at speed - giant Rivieras or similar.

[Crazyhorse 47]

We don't hear about it because there are stuff all actual incidents.  Worst offenders for exceeding 5 knots in Westhaven - Yachts.  Worse offenders for coming too close at speed - giant Rivieras or similar.

If that was the case your insurance bill would be about half what we now pay, you are insured?

[SanFran 12]

I am aware that in Aussi if youre the skipper and caught intoxicated at anchor, for the night, if convicted you lose your marine AND road drivers license. IMO a bit harsh. And they police it.

[Fish 0]

We dont hear about it.

Its because its as common as rocking horse sh*t...

 

There are no drivers for licencing. (excuse the pun)

Look at who is advocating for it. A harbour master, as part of a Regional Council, with an empire to build.

 

If a boating based organisation were advocating for it, it would be a different perspective altogether. i.e. NZ Coast Guard, who's moto is saving lives at sea. (not regulating activities on the water). Or the AYBA (or what ever that Auckland Boating Association thing is called.

[armchairadmiral 411]

Yes...it's control  by regulation and penalty of the masses for personal power and benefit of the few who get that control. The new science of 'strategic planning' is the mechanism. Ultimately its the bureaucracy that wields the power. Pollies come and go but the bureaucracy entrenches itself. Look at NZ in the last 25 years and see how ,little by little, inch by inch your personal liberties have been stolen away. All in your best interests of course. NZ is heading towards China type State control.

[dutyfree 170]

Yes I am insured and boat insurance is bugger all given the capital cost insured, the environment it sits in.  

 

Is there a broker on here that can tell us what the claims rate is for boats?

 

How many accidents have you guys had that involved another boat and was not during a race with a competitor?

[cj! 19]

Personal watercraft are registered, not licensed. So, with the advent of personal watercraft registration has it fixed all behavioural issues? Licensing and registration certainly haven't fixed all behavioural issues on our roads. Not saying we shouldn't have it but just don't think of it as a silver bullet that will suddenly fix everything.

[Beccara 25]

I think it would be a decent intermediate step to ask for some form of registration details be visible on all non-human powered watercraft, I think our public roads would be a lot more dangerous if all you could report to police was make/model.

 

I see plenty of fizz boats at Urquhart's at planing speed go right next to dive flags. Myself nor the dive boat can complain unless we go chase them down, Thats just one example where I think that at least visible registration details would help matters

[Island Time 1,230]

I do agree with that. And its currently a bylaw to have at least a vessel name on the boat in Auckland. Registration numbers would be better.

[harrytom 642]

Fizzy registration is dead easy,same as trailer rego.

[Fish 0]

Fizzy registration is dead easy,same as trailer rego.

Unless you use a dry-stack (i.e. don't have a trailer)

Displaying a boat rego number of some sort is a different proposition to skipper licencing. I would think it would clear up a lot of bad behaviour, on the grounds that any random member of the public can video or photo said bad behavior, and based on one clear shot of the rego number, it can be dealt with by the authorities. As far as I can tell now, the authorities have to be there and witness poor behavior to take any action on it (that, or for there to be an accident / collision, of which results in an investigation / prosecution).

Rego numbers on jet ski's doesn't appear to have been a bad thing, looks like its working, as far as I can tell. Yachts sailing effectively have rego numbers already.

 

That said, I'm still not in favour of the increasing march of bureaucracy into our leisure activities. There was a need for regos on jet ski's.Do people think there is a problem that warrants rego's on fizz boats, launches, and on the hull of yachts (instead of just on the sails)?

[Crazyhorse 47]

Unless you use a dry-stack (i.e. don't have a trailer)

Displaying a boat rego number of some sort is a different proposition to skipper licencing. I would think it would clear up a lot of bad behaviour, on the grounds that any random member of the public can video or photo said bad behavior, and based on one clear shot of the rego number, it can be dealt with by the authorities. As far as I can tell now, the authorities have to be there and witness poor behavior to take any action on it (that, or for there to be an accident / collision, of which results in an investigation / prosecution).

Rego numbers on jet ski's doesn't appear to have been a bad thing, looks like its working, as far as I can tell. Yachts sailing effectively have rego numbers already.

 

That said, I'm still not in favour of the increasing march of bureaucracy into our leisure activities. There was a need for regos on jet ski's.Do people think there is a problem that warrants rego's on fizz boats, launches, and on the hull of yachts (instead of just on the sails)?

Fishy is dead right. Got a stack of video of idiots screaming past us (could've handed them a coffee or thrown it at them as they went past...that close) in the Tamaki River off Little Bucks years ago. Harbour Master "we need to see them ourselves" even though several were identifiable. A friend in a 27 tonne ferro had a twin powered fizzy pass him ON THE PLANE believe it or not, in the main channel going into Marsden Cove! Went to the harbour master at NRC and nothing done. MNZ simply said "contact the harbour master".

[Ex Machina 365]

Fishy is dead right. Got a stack of video of idiots screaming past us (could've handed them a coffee or thrown it at them as they went past...that close) in the Tamaki River off Little Bucks years ago. Harbour Master "we need to see them ourselves" even though several were identifiable. A friend in a 27 tonne ferro had a twin powered fizzy pass him ON THE PLANE believe it or not, in the main channel going into Marsden Cove! Went to the harbour master at NRC and nothing done. MNZ simply said "contact the harbour master".

Whangarei is shocking for fizz and launch drivers passing close , very close at speed and like beccara said many boats cut right thru groups of boats at speed with divers down . Business is booming in a lot of sectors up here and I'm guessing that many people are upscaling from dinghy fishing to a chunky fizzy or in some cases straight to a chunky fizzy without much boating experience at all . It seems that a few then move on to a massive tinny for game fishing or a "riv" or similar import

[Fogg 427]

Problem is out of date approaches being used. Hotspots of bad behaviour could be monitored remotely via webcams or even drones peak seasons. And authorities could change rules to accept video evidence of idiots in action and prosecuting those identifiable.

 

You're thinking about mandatory registration all wrong. Think of it as a licence that can be revoked to ban idiots from driving a boat following a serious infringement. Again, tech could help with monitoring. Of course a small number would slip through (like on the roads a small number of banned drivers still drive but the cops learn about the serial offenders and look out for them). Maybe try same approach here?

[Beccara 25]

Licensing is all about enforcement, If the carrot doesn't work then you need a stick. On roads the stick comes in the form of fixed camera's and around 1000 dedicated staff patrolling roads. Even accounting for number of boats vs number of cars you still don't have the resources to enforce even with webcam's and drones.

 

Without a drastic increase in enforcement resources licensing would just be a revenue grab, Sure you may get a lot of people through the day skipper course but I've seen too many people with the "It won't happen to me, I'm a good driver" curse. If you enforced the current rules better then reassessed the how's and why's you may still end up at a license but at least by then the boating community would have had a chance

[Crazyhorse 47]

Identification is the problem then when they do catch up with the tosser, proving who was at the helm is the other. Councils have an obligation to provide a safe environment both on the roads and at sea and of course funding is always the issue. Someone should point out "there's money in them there waters!" FINES! SEIZURES! FORFEITURE TO THE CROWN! enough to at leased pay someone to sit off Urquharts Bay and pull every dam twat up and give them some costly paper work. Our problem is its viewed as "self policing" so there is no issue but there is. Everyone reading this thread knows there is and just because there isn't hundreds of bodies in the water (or politicians spilling their G&Ts in the various wakes) does not mean there isn't. The cops are not interetested. The harbour "masters" are not interested. MSA is not interested.

[dutyfree 170]

The problem is enforcement.  Licensing does not change that.  The rules already exist. 

[Crazyhorse 47]

The problem is enforcement.  Licensing does not change that.  The rules already exist.

 

True but how can you enforce something when you have no idea who the offender is? Drive flatout or race through stop signs in your car and you are likely to get pinged but not so in a boat. The car has a rego number, not so the boat. That has to change and licensing boats will change that but of course, how many see sea fleas zipping about with no number when they are supposed to be registered and number displayed. Enforcement is the answer in my opinion and the fines would help pay for it.

[Beccara 25]

Why not? It cant remain the wild west forever which it effectively is unless the stars align and the HM boat happens to be out when you see something. I can't think of anywhere or anything else where you can take a 100-1500kg object with 70-90-115-250hp engine on it and go 50kph in a public area without some form of displayed rego or license.

 

Come park up in Whangarei for a month, See how many people ignore colreg's around sailboats because they are in a hurry to get to the pub at Parua or skimming by divers in 3-5m depth or fishing inside the Reotahi marine reserve. All done in untraceable 12ft tinnies or 1 of 20 Haines launched around that day

 

People + Anonymity = A****les, Doesn't matter where it is