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YNZ Race Regulations Cat1-Cat5; Anomalies and concerns


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Remember that the Race authority states in the Race instructions what Safety spec you need to comply with and Sport Trailer Yacht may not be included in normal Yacht clubs NOR.

SSANZ used to do one of the Trailer yacht ones (A?) but Route 66, Coastal, etc are just Cat 3-5.

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Yep, every NOR I can find in the events that interest me just say Section 5 which includes Sport Trailer Yachts. Thats probably how boats like Tack Hammer were able to race.

I've no interest in doing Cat3 or 4+ longer races even with the ability to tow home. 23 Coastals in a cat and 3 in a Ross930 taught me what's fun and whats not

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Okay todays question, I just went and bought some smoke flares for the SSANZ Triple Series

Quote

 

From the safety regulations

Keelboat rules "Flares must not be more than 3 years old as indicated by the expiry date"

Trailer boat rules "Flares which are more than 3 years old from the date of manufacture are not acceptable"

 

So written on my new flares are

Quote

 

Date of manufacture 11/2019

Date of Expiry 11/2023

 

Are my flares legal in July 2023? It would seem not under both rules although they are written differently

What gives YNZ the right to override the manufacturers specification?

WTF am i paying levies for when YNZ can't even address basic safety regulations.

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Actually these rules seem to have been written by someone for whom English is a second language. Lets consider for a moment..... "Flares must not be more than 3 years old as indicated by the expiry date"

How could the expiry day even show how old they are? Does the date of death on a headstone alone show how old the person was?

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13 minutes ago, Island Time said:

That could be worded better, but the manufacturer knows when they were made. They stamp on the expiry date, 3 years from then...

Nah, most manufacturers have a 4 year expiry date nowadays.

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23 minutes ago, Island Time said:

That could be worded better, but the manufacturer knows when they were made. They stamp on the expiry date, 3 years from then...

Not the case. YNZ wording makes legal flares illegal

The correct wording is "Flare currency must be within the manufacturers specifications"

 

 

6004E9D5-2C4B-4D4D-AD12-E24FFEEC88B2.jpeg

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Hopefully Ken but if there is a loss (life or property) because of the failure of a 3 1/2 year old flare then the liability will be on.......

The YNZ inspector for Categories 1,2 and 3 for issuing a certificate when the flares didn't comply with the rule

or

The skipper for Categories 4 and 5 for declaring the boat complied with the rules when it didn't

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32 minutes ago, Deep Purple said:

Hopefully Ken but if there is a loss (life or property) because of the failure of a 3 1/2 year old flare then the liability will be on.......

The YNZ inspector for Categories 1,2 and 3 for issuing a certificate when the flares didn't comply with the rule

or

The skipper for Categories 4 and 5 for declaring the boat complied with the rules when it didn't

Pulling a pretty long bow to hit that target, be pretty hard to put a loss of life down to a flare failure during a race. Have you read a Cat 1 /2 SI or NOR lately?

By the time your 3 different emergency response GPS linked tracking system buttons didn't work and your several expensive methods of communication have failed, and Epirbs PLB's etc, blaming a flare failure for a death is pushing it to say the least.

Lets get back to focusing on how to make sailing, and racing, more accessible and cheaper, not trying to stop people doing it because it might appear to be a little bit dangerous to a bureaucrat / Lawyer.

I do however agree that the wording of the regulations might benefit from review by someone competent in English and Logic.

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I think I’ll change the SSANZ NoR to “ Flares must be current according to manufacturers date stamp”

or the likes

I’ve checked probably hundreds and only ever looked at expiration date, have I been neglectful ?

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Not in my view, that is the obvious thing to do

I sat on the KORC committee for a few years. The drafting of the safety regulations was pretty closed shop of the safety subcommittee. I do remember though knocking back a proposal from them that Cat3 didn't require an engine.

 

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2 hours ago, Deep Purple said:

Hopefully Ken but if there is a loss (life or property) because of the failure of a 3 1/2 year old flare then the liability will be on.......

The YNZ inspector for Categories 1,2 and 3 for issuing a certificate when the flares didn't comply with the rule

or

The skipper for Categories 4 and 5 for declaring the boat complied with the rules when it didn't

Bit like the WOF on your car,only valid on day of issue,up to you to keep things in order. Inspector inspects today and all good,inspector walks away and you return borrowed gear.Cat 4/5 not much chance of a snap inspection.

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Which is why to their credit SSANZ do their inspections on the water and they are visible and extensive. I'd go as far as saying the boats in a SSANZ race comply with the appropriate rules better than the ones in some high profile Cat3 races, although perhaps not as bad as when certificates lasted 3 years.

 

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Is there a minimum engine size requirement for keelers ?  I can’t be bothered reading the cat list right now it makes me cross eyed .

just asking because there may be a loophole for keelers under Cat3 that have outboards .

two keelers lost rudders in a Cat3 race recently and required tows from the coastguard . Outboards qualify as emergency rudders as far as I know . both boats had 5hp transom hung outboards . The breeze was in the mid 30s from the W/SW  with a bloody steep chop up to 1.5m at times . If the breeze had been from the southeast the outcome could have been very different and I know both boats would’ve been out there pushing very hard .

At a guess if both boats were trailer yachts under the NZTYA regs one would’ve had to have had an 8hp and the other 10hp . Im not having a go at the skippers , they were within the rules and there were other boats out there with small outboards that day . There’s a gap there in the regs I think if a boat can’t motor to windward but is required to be full of expensive safety gear 

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6 minutes ago, 44forty said:

Is there a minimum engine size requirement for keelers ?  

The rules for Keelboats 20.05 - Engine only required at Cat3 and above and then only enough to drive the boat in flat water (no wind presumably) at a calculated level. HP for your boat would be fark all

Trailer yachts 13.0  - 0.25hp per foot regardless of displacement. Note although it says sports boats exempt , it actually refers to Sport Trailer Yachts. Sportboats are under Section VI.

Screen Shot 2020-05-07 at 9.38.14 AM.png

Screen Shot 2020-05-07 at 9.37.29 AM.png

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Sorry, got the numbers the wrong way round 20.05 is keelboats and multihulls, 13.0 is trailer yachts

 

So for Keelboats cat 4 and 5 and Trailer Yachts Cat A B and C - Keelboats don't require a motor, trailer yachts do and sport trailer yachts have to carry a motor but size is unrestricted

For Cat 3 all boats have to carry a motor but only to the formula. Note trailer yachts sailing in  cat3 races have to be equipped to Cat3 rules, not trailer yacht rules

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