Wednesday Night Series

[Guest]

Instead of dividing why don't we concentrate on getting boats sailing. There are a lot tied up going nowhere. what has happened to OP, creepy, capricorn, x factor but to name a few. As John said he doesn't mind the long course he just wants to race against someone. If these boats were sailing I am sure the complaining will ease. Every fleet has quick and slow boats especially fleets that are not one design and you are never going to cater for everyone.

 

Another idea is some off you good guys go out and help theses slower guys tune up their boats instead of complaining. will do the class a world of good for comradeship.

[Guest]

I know I would be interested in a shorter course option for the Wednesday series, you feel quite detached from the fleet when the fast ones get home efficiently with the good breeze and then being slower compounded with a typical dying breeze limping home in the dark, or not even making it. I remember quite a few like that last series and in felt we were racing monos for alot of the series.

 

That would be much more exciting having a chance to get even 'within sight' of the faster boats on the finish line. I'm only going to be an occasional starter this year though with a new addition to the family and way too much time out of country.

 

I'm sure it must be frustrating as well being on a boat like tvs with course lengths way out of proportion to the ability of the boat and crew, and having to do such quick races. Probably takes longer to set up and pack up than do some races. Wouldn’t it be more interesting for the fast boats as well to 'maybe' get beaten by a little boat once in a while?

 

Its not like we are racing for big money or big prizes & overall it costs us all a bucket load to race and keep up to racing spec doesn’t it - so why not make it interesting?

[Guest]

The course on wednesday, to MacKenzie buoy is shorter than the courses we did last year, to Saltworks twice. It seems two things have started this discussion - Sam returning to sail as he raised this point two years ago, and it getting dark as the days haven't drawn out yet. All other fleets except A divison had the same or worse course times as Sam, and there are no complaints.

 

With only 11 boats, seperating into two divisions will do us more harm than good.

 

Justmy two cents worth

[MrWolf 0]

The speed of the average multihull is around the same as the top a division keelboats, so why are the multi's now doing longer courses than a division.

 

certainly only a small portion of the multi fleet are 30% faster than wired say.

 

in other words courses that long cater for a very small portion of our fleet

[Clipper 343]

I'm not sure there has been any complaints as such, more like comments/discussion. John wasn't complainig. Perhaps send it is right (I hate saying that), we just need more boats out, then it doesn't matter.

[markm 30]

Wolfie, the middle of A div is about 20% slower than Wired and the A div course will be set for the mid boats not for Wired, actually worse since B div do the same course so it's probably set for the back of A / the front of B.

 

If the mid fleet multis are about the speed of Wired, then you'd expect a significantly longer course than A div in order to give most multis a course circa 90-100 mins which I'd guess the Wednesday night target would be.

 

To put some context into it, if you were doing well set A-B div courses, the bulk of your fleet would finish by 7:05, the front would finish before the start sequence for all boats completed.

[Guest]

Thanks clipper I appreciate that

 

Why is it people want to do more yachting then when the courses are longer they want to do less? hmmmm

[MrWolf 0]

If the course is a lot of reaching then Yes the multis need longer courses.

 

If its light airs Upwind/Downwind a course the length of A division is more appropriate.

 

The key to this discussion for me is that we don't alienate a number of slower boats in our fleet to please a number of faster ones.

everyone has to compromise because one boat in our fleet is twice as fast as the other end of our fleet.

[Guest]

If the course is a lot of reaching then Yes the multis need longer courses.

 

If its light airs Upwind/Downwind a course the length of A division is more appropriate.

 

The key to this discussion for me is that we don't alienate a number of slower boats in our fleet to please a number of faster ones.

everyone has to compromise because one boat in our fleet is twice as fast as the other end of our fleet.

 

Yes and from my experience the RO's would be happy to take comments like these on board re course length and apparent wind direction. In fact there are now a few boats not just one which are a going a bit quicker and its not just Teiping out in front like it used to be, and I guess yours will step up when back racing too.

 

We are already getting around in close to 40 minutes some times, and have twice last year and once already this year had to slow to pick our way through the last division starting.

 

I guess we are already making compromises.

 

 

PS John I know where a couple more of these 60's are if you get the urge, happy to help!!

[Guest]

If you look back through the forums, I'm sure you will find this exact thread and discussion two years ago, and the fleets were bigger then.

 

We have for two reasons changed from last start to first, for safety reasons and to give a diverse fleet more time to operate in. I know some are scarred of that nasty darkness, but it will ease as the summer progresses.

[Guest]

PS John I know where a couple more of these 60's are if you get the urge, happy to help!!

 

60's! who's gonna step up to 110?

[samin 0]

Katriana came and did 5 races in good faith and didnt finish within the time limit for a single one.

 

The owner asked the NZMYC more than once for a cruising multihull division and Matthew Flynn said no.

 

Whats the response of the NZMYC when he stops racing? oh good lets make the course longer.

 

Since I have been involved with the NZMYC its had no interest in Cruising Multihull races or events.

 

Now its actually gone a step further and effectively banned them from racing as they cant finish within the given time limits and you wont allow a Division for them.

 

Your arguments for the fact that none race so why have a div is bullshit, they try and race but cant finish within the time limits.

 

At the moment you cant buy a standard Farrier, Corsair, GBE, Newick, Turismo, or any other Multihull with any kind of decent accommodation and expect to finish a Wed night Race until after prize giving is complete, even sailing the A div course some of these boats would struggle to finish in time.

 

As I said earlier if they want the fleet to disappear from the bottom upwards they are going the right way about it, the day (hopefully never) that Putiki Express stops racing is the day there will be no chance of ever including all multihulls in the racing it will just the top 5 multihulls in NZ that can hope to finish within the time limits in the ever longer and longer courses.

 

So my proposal is either have a course which is short enough to allow any multihull who chooses to compete to finish within the time limits, or to have a short and long course.

 

I have no vested interest I just want to see the fleet building and there are so many owners who wont race as they feel their boats aren't fast enough.

[samin 0]

If you look back through the forums, I'm sure you will find this exact thread and discussion two years ago, and the fleets were bigger then.

 

We have for two reasons changed from last start to first, for safety reasons and to give a diverse fleet more time to operate in. I know some are scarred of that nasty darkness, but it will ease as the summer progresses.

 

Why dont you put your money where your mouth is and jump on a stock GBE and see if you can finish before the time limit.

 

Oh no you'd rather just sit smugly on the 46ft racing cat and patronize the guys on the small boats, good on you.

[johnMi 2]

I didn't realise, but I finished only minutes before the time limit expired.

Maybe they could increase the time limit.

[MrWolf 0]

The multihull situation is Unique.

 

There is no other division with such different speeds from Front to back.

 

As John said it is unfair to expect the Race Committee to have to wait around for stragglers,

and it also affects the majority of Rum Racers every time they have to delay the Prizegiving longer and longer.

 

Finishing in the dark or light is not the issue, it is finishing in the time limit.

Sam's comments re Katariana are very valid, that guy has just as much right to sail on Wednesday nights as anyone else. I see they now sail with a different yacht club in a mixed division.

 

We don't really have enough boats to have separate starts but I'm not sure what would be wrong with the leading boats doing an extra lap ?

[Guest]

Do you call what the big red thing does, " Racing"? or are they just out sail training for some offshore event. If you ignore that boat the the next step down is Taeping then the two land based trimarans, after that there are the 8 fives ( and then a long came John).

I feel sorry for John at the back of the fleet but there isn't enough boats out there to run split divisions. Wolfs idea makes the most sense (did i say that?) the only other option is a markfoy type start thought to beat big red back you may have to start at 1600 hrs John.

[MrWolf 0]

I don't think we have anywhere enough boats to be looking at two starts and two divisions,

 

But if we have one start, two courses, what others see is a bunch of multis at the start, a bunch of multis hooning all around the place, and a bunch of multis finishing a lot closer to gether.

It will look more spectacular and get more fringe cruiser/racers racing regularly.

If done correctly the short course finish may be a close run thing to the long course finish.

 

Mixing up results on handicap especially is very good for participation numbers. Everyone likes to feel they are in with a chance.

the multis are very good at this, and huge ups to The rev for his work with the handicap committee.

 

But if you think that's good, try giving some of the not so fast boats the chance to finish near to TVS. Their eyes are going to light up, and they'll be talking about it for weeks.

Take a look at the video shot on Tigre to see what I mean.

[Guest]

Samin,

 

Thanks for the personal attack - I appreciate it.

 

Congradulations to Triple 8, smacked the Taeping in the Roy McDell memorial. They sailed extremely well and have that thing humming.

[samin 0]

Samin,

 

Thanks for the personal attack - I appreciate it.

 

 

Im sorry Greg, just venting my frustration on the only NZMYC Committee member who shows his face around here

 

Let me ask the question in a less offensive way.

 

Greg as a NZMYC Committee member do you think a stock standard F27 tri or similar performing boat such as an unmodified GBE would be able to complete a wed night series within the given time limit in every race?

 

If not do you think its acceptable that the NZMYC offers no twilight racing this type of boat can fairly compete in given that a DNF is a very bad result in a series?

[Rental 1]

Good discusion..............

 

But this was one race where the wind happened to die and the tide was out going, just get over it !!

 

Was it a nice sail?

Did you have fun? (we did - a couple of beers on the way around)

It is only a Wednesday night race.

 

I am sure that the guys that set the course would agree it was a little long given what happened with the breeze, but that is yacht racing folks.