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NZ Maritime border control


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16 minutes ago, DrWatson said:

14 days quarantine, not 28 ;)

 

Nope, read the whole article...

SHORE-LEAVE RULES TIGHTENED

Crews on foreign ships will be required to enter managed isolation if on shore-leave, unless they had been on the ship for a continuous 28 days without showing symptoms.

The 28-day rule doubles the earlier requirement that those working on ships must have been onboard for 14 days or longer with no health problems apparent.

Ardern said she didn't expect many crew to actually take shore leave in New Zealand if they had to be in managed isolation, while many ships wouldn't be at sea for 28 continuos days.

The move follows Ports of Auckland banning crews leaving ships.

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I always read the whole article ;)

 

Still 14 days. 28 days refers to time on ship (transit). No sentence above, nor in the article, says 28 days quarantine. Managed Isolation is 14 days unless you've been 28 days or more at sea and no signs of sickness, then no managed isolation. 28 days is double the earlier 14 day onboard requirement.

 

RNZ has a clearer article: 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419577/cabinet-expands-cruise-ship-ban-mandatory-tests-guidelines-for-travellers-ardern

"The government also extended the cruise ship ban beyond 30 June, for a further 60 or 90 days, Ardern said.

There are exceptions to the ban, including for cargo vessels to load and unload and fishing vessels to unload and resupply.

However, any crew arriving in New Zealand would need to spend 14 days in quarantine in New Zealand unless they had been on the boat for 28 days prior to arriving. This is a tightening of the current rules, she said."

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its 14 days unless you refuse a test, then its 28 days. I'm sure someone may want to refuse a test for some crazy reason, but I can't see many people doing more than 14 days if they don't have to.

I am pleased they've tightened the shore leave for sailors. Got to plug the gaps...

 

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8 minutes ago, Fish said:

its 14 days unless you refuse a test, then its 28 days. I'm sure someone may want to refuse a test for some crazy reason, but I can't see many people doing more than 14 days if they don't have to.

I am pleased they've tightened the shore leave for sailors. Got to plug the gaps...

 

Where did you read that Fish, I did not see that anywhere?

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Second para of that story:

A new Health Order will make it explicit that arriving Kiwis need to return a negative Covid-19 test before leaving isolation or quarantine after 14 days. Those that refuse can be held for up to a month.

But I also heard the announcement either the other day or somewhere else.

To be fair, that rule is for returning kiwis. Ships crew are allowed off the ship, if they want to go into managed isolation. Otherwise they have to stay on their ship. That story wasn't clear on ships crew needing to return a negative test before leaving isolation, but they would still have to stay a minimum of 14 days, how many ships stay in the one port for more than 14 days?

It's little loop holes like ships crews I haven't been comfortable with (that and the general poor management of the isolation requirements). I'm still not comfortable bout air crew just strolling around...

 

 

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This story sums up all of my concerns with air crew border control. Apologies for the drift away from maritime.

I think commercial sailors are the least of our worries. What are they most likely to do if they get shore leave? Go to a knock shop for some light relief, or sit in the corner of a pub near the waterfront? Generally going to expose themselves to very few people, unless you work on Fort St (apologies for the blatant and politcailly incorrect stereo type of sailors in port, I'm sure some of them like knitting, and get shore leave so they can acquire top quality NZ wool...). But Air NZ cabin crew could expose themselves to a few hundred people a day...

PS, Health Minster David Clark is going to have a hard word with Air NZ, what a joke, I'd bitch slap that clown if he tried having a hard word with me. I'm sure Air NZ would run rings around him. He has no mandate...

An Air New Zealand crew member warned on Friday that flight attendants could crew trans-Tasman flights and then be assigned to domestic flights two days later, without having gone through any self-isolation or testing.They also feared there was a temptation for air crew to breach self-isolating rules during stop-overs in the United States, saying there was no room service at the Ayres Hotel in Los Angeles that Air NZ is understood to use for layovers and its restaurant is currently closed.

 

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said at a press conference on Monday that Health Minister David Clark would be sitting down with Air New Zealand that day "to reinforce just how important it is that airline crew uphold ... expectations".

A spokesman for Clark declined to say what specifically had prompted the meeting, which was due to take place on Monday evening.

"Currently the only international flights where there would be any potential cross-over with air crew with scheduled domestic flights in New Zealand would be Air New Zealand flights to low risk countries such as Australia and the Pacific," she said.

"The majority of flight crew on Australia and Pacific flights remain airside and do not stay overnight before returning to New Zealand." The concerned crew member has disputed that "low risk" assessment, noting many passengers flying from Australia are transitting from countries in Europe and Asia where the coronavirus may be prevalent.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121902230/health-ministry-defends-covid-rules-for-air-crew-saying-australia-low-risk

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and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

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8 hours ago, Romany said:

and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

Well we could have followed the Swedish model and then you would really have something to moan about.

Crikey this is a unique set of circumstances and everybody is learning from their mistakes what else can we ask for life is perfectible.

What robust sustainable strategies that rock out from this chaos will stand the nation in good stead when this inevitably happens again in the future. 

 

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9 hours ago, Romany said:

and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

Any suggestions to improve the situation?  People in the past have tried concentration camps and bullets to focus other people's attention and that was a spectacular fail.  I guess we might just have to expect people to be people and hope for the best.  Bringing in some military organisation seems to be a good idea in this case?

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4 minutes ago, Dtwo said:

Any suggestions to improve the situation?  People in the past have tried concentration camps and bullets to focus other people's attention and that was a spectacular fail.  I guess we might just have to expect people to be people and hope for the best.  Bringing in some military organisation seems to be a good idea in this case?

I would have thought it would be fairly straight forward for air crew to stay in isolation in NZ and continue working on the long haul routes. I'm sure the air crew that are left are happy to have an actual job, and will make some sacrifices in order to keep said job and keep our country safe. There are some fairly simple fails, putting air crew up in a hotel that does not do room service, nor has an onsite restaurant... so air crew are going to expose themselves in LA whilst getting their breakfast.

The only reason air crew need to be able to trans tasman one day and domestic the next is for 'operational flexibility'. i.e. it saves Air NZ money... I know a few plumbers, builders etc that have lost a lot of money going into lock down.

In almost any organisation, especially the H&S in the construction sector, you set out what you are going to do, communicate that clearly, then make damn sure what you said was going to happen is happening. I'm talking audits and the like, and consequences for people not towing the line.

To be honest Dtwo, I think your reference to concentration camps and bullets is out of line. Feel free to apologise or explain yourself. You appear to have a poor grasp of the situation and what Romany and myself are getting at.

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Rant. You cant' keep your cake and eat it too. 

Some people screaming for the borders to open, other people screaming for them to shut and exclude even NZ citizens. Other people screaming that their rights are being removed and then crying for NZ citizens to essentially be incarcerated.

Quarantine, and disease control is a very tricky business, and what we've learnt and are being shown is that in general half the population are below average intelligence. There will always be people in positions of authority that exceed their capability, be they politicians (on both sides), health authorities, security guards, police, and even hotel management. Last but not least returning NZers who're in quarantine also have responsibilities, and by their sheer numbers, some of those in quarantine will lack sufficient intelligence, integrity, or logic to fully meet their obligation.

No, the system has not been perfect. 

But I'm also sick of hearing about the "We'd have done it better" bullsht from the other side of the fence. Spouting empty rhetoric and a lack of details. Look at the rest of the world - it's basically screwed. Now tell me how exactly a different management of the situation would have let us leave level 4, 3 or 2 any earlier, or kept deaths to <30 at this point. There were ALWAYS gonna be more cases because as a responsible international player we recognise the inalienable right of our citizens to come home. As yet there is no community transmission, which means track and trace and the current managed isolation approach is working.  It may not work perfectly or forever, and it has had to be tightened - a response to evidence. But if it had been so tight initially, that people couldn't see dying relatives, that there were no compassionate allowances, then the same group of people who are jumping up and down now, would have been jumping up and down about it being an overreaction and that there was a lack of evidence of it being necessary.

I watch social media circles on both sides of the fence, and what I see happening in NZ right now scares the hell outta me. The far left, the middle left, the "centre" and the blues and yellows on the right are all becoming a bunch of nationalistic arstholes in a fear-fed frenzy of "I'm ok mate, F**k you foreigners/travellers/other kiwis".

Sorry this post is no longer about marine issues. But likely neither are quite a number of the posts above. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, DrWatson said:

in general half the population are below average intelligence

That's what the definition of average is.

Unfortunately, having average intelligence is often not actually enough to make you very useful.

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On 23/06/2020 at 6:46 PM, Fish said:

To be honest Dtwo, I think your reference to concentration camps and bullets is out of line. Feel free to apologise or explain yourself. You appear to have a poor grasp of the situation and what Romany and myself are getting at.

It's good that we are being honest.  I've just gone through and re-read the thread and I'd like to explain myself.

Your post, which initiated the thread drift on to air crew, included this statement:

"PS, Health Minster David Clark is going to have a hard word with Air NZ, what a joke, I'd bitch slap that clown if he tried having a hard word with me. I'm sure Air NZ would run rings around him. He has no mandate..."

I remember thinking that your statement was, apart from the gung-ho machismo side of things, pretty non-constructive.  So, my comment was born out of frustration at those among us (and not solely you!) who seem to have plenty to say but don't actually say much.  I've just un-friended some FB contacts after becoming bored with their mindless knock-knock-knock comments which appear to repeat what they have heard from Hosking.  My comment was trying to show that we need to bring some new ideas to the table, rather than simply attack those who are trying very hard to help us all.  

This Covid bitch will be with us for a while. We are in unprecedented times. We could just do history again and go round and round.  Or we could change.

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