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and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

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Rant. You cant' keep your cake and eat it too.  Some people screaming for the borders to open, other people screaming for them to shut and exclude even NZ citizens. Other people screaming that th

It's good that we are being honest.  I've just gone through and re-read the thread and I'd like to explain myself. Your post, which initiated the thread drift on to air crew, included this statem

and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the curren

8 hours ago, Romany said:

and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

Well we could have followed the Swedish model and then you would really have something to moan about.

Crikey this is a unique set of circumstances and everybody is learning from their mistakes what else can we ask for life is perfectible.

What robust sustainable strategies that rock out from this chaos will stand the nation in good stead when this inevitably happens again in the future. 

 

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9 hours ago, Romany said:

and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

Any suggestions to improve the situation?  People in the past have tried concentration camps and bullets to focus other people's attention and that was a spectacular fail.  I guess we might just have to expect people to be people and hope for the best.  Bringing in some military organisation seems to be a good idea in this case?

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4 minutes ago, Dtwo said:

Any suggestions to improve the situation?  People in the past have tried concentration camps and bullets to focus other people's attention and that was a spectacular fail.  I guess we might just have to expect people to be people and hope for the best.  Bringing in some military organisation seems to be a good idea in this case?

I would have thought it would be fairly straight forward for air crew to stay in isolation in NZ and continue working on the long haul routes. I'm sure the air crew that are left are happy to have an actual job, and will make some sacrifices in order to keep said job and keep our country safe. There are some fairly simple fails, putting air crew up in a hotel that does not do room service, nor has an onsite restaurant... so air crew are going to expose themselves in LA whilst getting their breakfast.

The only reason air crew need to be able to trans tasman one day and domestic the next is for 'operational flexibility'. i.e. it saves Air NZ money... I know a few plumbers, builders etc that have lost a lot of money going into lock down.

In almost any organisation, especially the H&S in the construction sector, you set out what you are going to do, communicate that clearly, then make damn sure what you said was going to happen is happening. I'm talking audits and the like, and consequences for people not towing the line.

To be honest Dtwo, I think your reference to concentration camps and bullets is out of line. Feel free to apologise or explain yourself. You appear to have a poor grasp of the situation and what Romany and myself are getting at.

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10 hours ago, Romany said:

and there is the Achilles heel. Relying on people to 'do the right thing' has been proven time and time again to fail. Call me a pessimist but in matters of public health - especially under the current circumstances this will lead to tears, or worse.

What  was the point of going into lock down, creating the economic mayhem that we still haven't seen the full measure of yet - to be apologetic about policies designed for protecting the greater good? Dumb n dumber if u ask me..

 

Yep, much to touchy fealy if you ask me. Faith isn't going make people behave.

Unless people are informed EXACTLY what is required of them & why, with no exceptions, we will struggle to contain covid19.

 Current health ministry are pretty amateur for a supposed professional mob, with the all associated mistakes of not having a comprehensive plan and communicating it.

A failure is too potentially serious to devise a strategy this way, on ad hoc basis.

Should be other way round, cover every base from day one, and ease in areas found unnecessary.

Obviously limiting transmission at level 1 is infinitely more complex than in lockdown.

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Rant. You cant' keep your cake and eat it too. 

Some people screaming for the borders to open, other people screaming for them to shut and exclude even NZ citizens. Other people screaming that their rights are being removed and then crying for NZ citizens to essentially be incarcerated.

Quarantine, and disease control is a very tricky business, and what we've learnt and are being shown is that in general half the population are below average intelligence. There will always be people in positions of authority that exceed their capability, be they politicians (on both sides), health authorities, security guards, police, and even hotel management. Last but not least returning NZers who're in quarantine also have responsibilities, and by their sheer numbers, some of those in quarantine will lack sufficient intelligence, integrity, or logic to fully meet their obligation.

No, the system has not been perfect. 

But I'm also sick of hearing about the "We'd have done it better" bullsht from the other side of the fence. Spouting empty rhetoric and a lack of details. Look at the rest of the world - it's basically screwed. Now tell me how exactly a different management of the situation would have let us leave level 4, 3 or 2 any earlier, or kept deaths to <30 at this point. There were ALWAYS gonna be more cases because as a responsible international player we recognise the inalienable right of our citizens to come home. As yet there is no community transmission, which means track and trace and the current managed isolation approach is working.  It may not work perfectly or forever, and it has had to be tightened - a response to evidence. But if it had been so tight initially, that people couldn't see dying relatives, that there were no compassionate allowances, then the same group of people who are jumping up and down now, would have been jumping up and down about it being an overreaction and that there was a lack of evidence of it being necessary.

I watch social media circles on both sides of the fence, and what I see happening in NZ right now scares the hell outta me. The far left, the middle left, the "centre" and the blues and yellows on the right are all becoming a bunch of nationalistic arstholes in a fear-fed frenzy of "I'm ok mate, F**k you foreigners/travellers/other kiwis".

Sorry this post is no longer about marine issues. But likely neither are quite a number of the posts above. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, DrWatson said:

in general half the population are below average intelligence

That's what the definition of average is.

Unfortunately, having average intelligence is often not actually enough to make you very useful.

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