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The fact is that it was ill conceived to allow anyone to "own" the quota. Effectively owning the fish. There will be $ involved, but this is the only way to get control back. And it does not matter who the owners are or how hard this may be. Still has to happen. 

Plus it must be written into NZ law that no one, individual, company,  or organisation of any kind, can ever own a quota or right in perpetuity again. Ownership of the fishery must remain with the NZ public.

MPI and the government need to man up and get on with this.

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Colin moyles tried to get this across the line but unfortunately never made it in full.

http://www.option4.co.nz/Your_Rights/moyles.htm

Cannot remember if I have posted before but makes an interesting read,who spends what,but the govt(nats) dismissed it, yetparts of USA Mexico and a few other places adopted recreational value and have moved commercial out of certain areas,they realised the true value of tourist $$,fish close to base,photo and releas.The fish can be caught again and again,yet once taken can never be replaced.

https://www.nzmrf.org.nz/files/New-Zealand-Fishing-Economic-Report.pdf

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On 28/07/2020 at 10:38 PM, Island Time said:

The fact is that it was ill conceived to allow anyone to "own" the quota. Effectively owning the fish. There will be $ involved, but this is the only way to get control back. And it does not matter who the owners are or how hard this may be. Still has to happen. 

Plus it must be written into NZ law that no one, individual, company,  or organisation of any kind, can ever own a quota or right in perpetuity again. Ownership of the fishery must remain with the NZ public.

MPI and the government need to man up and get on with this.

Personally I was able to understand this and agree.  It has to happen.  I don't understand how anyone could fail to grasp the issues at hand.

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I have come into this argu.....I mean discussion a little late. I have skip read through the posts, so forgive me if I have got the wrong point of the argument.
Quota is Quota. It is a limit to what can be caught and sold. It does not matter who owns or leases Quata, Only a set amount of Fish in the managed area can be caught.
Because of this, new Technology has been introduced over the years so as the quota of  species can be caught as efficiently as possible. It is expensive gear, often complex and many times , very large. So only the big operators can use it. That means it is better for the really big guys to have the Quota over the smaller fellow.
Our NZ Quota should never be confused with that which is caught by the overseas big Fishing companies. There are instances where overseas Vessels have wiped out entire stocks over deep sea mounts.
The Quota system here in NZ for the most part, works very well. The only thing I do not like about it is the throwing back of by catch when it is obvious that it will it survive. But tell me a better way, because they sure can't.
 

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Wheels the whole proposal in a nutshell is.anyone can lease tonnage and sell to whoever.all catch must be landed no size limit.you caught it you land it.throwing back dead undersize achieves nothing.  If you contract to me as I own the quota and I want 2 ton snapper at 350 mm and catch280 mm I don't want it.what are going to do?? Find a quota holder to land it under and accept little $$ for it or dump it and go for the bigger $$$ under the orosal you land and sell it to me or the public.you can fillet it and get more $$.. Wheels you really need to watch doco  most species are well below the biomass of Burgan stock.size has been fished.what was normal size of 600 mm snapper the new normal us around 450mm. Dr Daniel Pauly on YouTube has video dumbing down the oceans.you will get a better understanding watching it. Or contact legasea.co.nz.  

 

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As I said, Quota is Quota. It doesn't matter who leases or owns it. It entitles the user to catch a set amount or certain size per year. Full stop! once Quota is met. What is allowed and not allowed does not come down to the person operating the Quota. That is set by Fisheries. So if I buy Quota from you Harrytom, I am bound by the restrictions of that Quota.
As to size and quantity that can be taken, that is a different argument and should be kept separate from the Quota itself. The Quota is just the license. I agree about the problem with by catch. It is a big problem. But once again, Quota and who owns and who operates it has nothing to do with the issues with by catch. Separate argument.

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Yes quota is quota set amount you do not have quota to take kingfish but you get 300 kg of them.what do you do ? Dump them ?? Then that's a waste so under what's proposed you can keep and sell.there becomes no bycatch.quota is tonnage per species so catch varies species you need to buy/ lease quota for each species.fisheries set tonnage per species.not hard to understand.

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OK, perhaps I need to go back and re read all this. As I said, I read a few posts and so I guess I may not understand the argument here. I had thought some were arguing about the Quota's being leased out.
I 100% agree that any catch should not be dumped. It needs to be accounted for, brought ashore and Sold and I was of the understanding that this was now what indeed had to be done.
Certainly, any by catch must be recorded in type of fish and where caught. This is accounted for by Fisheries as to what is happening to other Fish stocks.
We do have a pretty good system here in NZ. That is likely not the case for overseas Fisheries. But NZ has Fishing Companies that are very good at maintaining their Area's. As many of them say, it is in their own best interest to ensure that the Stocks are healthy and maintained.

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1 hour ago, wheels said:

OK, perhaps I need to go back and re read all this. As I said, I read a few posts and so I guess I may not understand the argument here. I had thought some were arguing about the Quota's being leased out.
I 100% agree that any catch should not be dumped. It needs to be accounted for, brought ashore and Sold and I was of the understanding that this was now what indeed had to be done.
Certainly, any by catch must be recorded in type of fish and where caught. This is accounted for by Fisheries as to what is happening to other Fish stocks.
We do have a pretty good system here in NZ. That is likely not the case for overseas Fisheries. But NZ has Fishing Companies that are very good at maintaining their Area's. As many of them say, it is in their own best interest to ensure that the Stocks are healthy and maintained.

Definitely worth getting up to speed on.  There are many factors at play here and not just "quota is quota".  Such as:

- the issue of who owns the resource (QMS has conferred ownership whereas the public of NZ owns the resource)

- who is allowed to fish (ATM more and more quota is held by a small, wealthy and influential group)

- is the QMS actually protecting the resource?

- this resource should be controlled by an independent science-led process.  Currently it isn't.

- MPI fisheries management is "owned" by the quota holders

.... and many more.  Pretty important that we all understand the issues.

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Let's go back to the 300kg of kingfish you do not have  quota for it.the options of what you can do for non quota is 1) find a quota holder who can land it for you.2) land it and pay a deemed value.instead of getting $5 kg you now pay the govt $7 kg 3) dump it.

This is why it needs changing does nothing to rebuild stock.

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Again, Wheels and anyone else, watch the doco, and read what you can. Large industry has MPI in their pockets, and many MP's are not neutral.

The QMS simply is not working, stats can be made to say anything. It's led to a situation where apparently more than 40% of the current take may be being dumped. Its illegal, but its happening, as it make economic sense. 

Again I use the example I gave before. One species has currently a "moratorium"  on fishing it , the large fishing companies would have you believe that its because they are environmentally conscientious, but the fact is that the average fish size has reduced over the last 5 years, and they cannot currently catch their quotas. They are also publishing info that says the reduction in stock is due to global warming. This is despite the fact that they have had 3 of NZ's largest trawlers over the spawning grounds 24x7....

The QMS was well intentioned.  However, it is not working, our fisheries have been, and are being decimated. Current science says that you cant take more than 50% of biomass of CURRENT stocks if a fishery is to be sustained. We have been working on 70%, of ORIGINAL biomass, only leaving 30% - of the original totals, which, in reality, means take whatever you can find. It is not sufficient for a species to thrive, or possibly even survive long term.

The other issue with current quota, is that it is in perpetuity. Effectively this is handing ownership of the fishery to the quota holder, and remember this was given to them FREE.   It's a valuable asset, and is trade-able between the fishing companies. If the system is redesigned so that quota is leased for a set period, and manged scientifically, then it can be easily adjusted, and be a profit making system for the government. Also, of course, the unbelievably insane system that caused dumping, can be replace with one that does not make this economically sensible - like high grading in the current system etc.  High grading is dumping some fish in favour of better ones, so you can still be within your quota.

 

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Commercial fishing vessel offences 10-times higher after Ministry for Primary Industries starts tracking location information

There's been a 10-fold increase in detected offences since commercial fishing vessels were required to give geospatial tracking information to the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI).

Data released to Newshub shows these offences include fishing in marine reserves, not having an observer, and submitting catch data too late. 

MPI's digital tracking system monitors the movements of commercial vessels across New Zealand.

"It's all about behavioural change and this is a game-changer for us. Our compliance activity is far more directed now," MPI compliance investigations manager Steve Ham says.

It's more directed because since December 31 last year, electronic position and catch reporting was made compulsory on 860 vessels. 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/12/commercial-fishing-vessel-offences-10-times-higher-after-ministry-for-primary-industries-starts-tracking-location-information.html

 

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Thanks for that.But where is my warning for doing over 10kph??They have the gear which shows the skipper exactly where they are,so no excuses for fishing in protected areas. Will David Parker make cameras compulsary for all sooner instead of 2024??

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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/navy-joins-fisheries-patrols-targeting-law-breakers-off-northlands-east-coast/ZINEUBAJFBZTDXOB3XBYR4HSMU/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1BdntEciEwI6wmAEV_S-d0_yHfPj1MMw0upUY4UnhMbGKrYuhmu2_GlwI#Echobox=1607970180

 

 

"Four people on one vessel had 17 packhorse crayfish which they had stolen from a commercial crayfishing pot. Nine of the female crays had eggs, and five were too small. All 17 crayfish were returned to the sea alive."

The patrol located a recreational long line in Deep Water Cove, Bay of Islands. This is an area which has been closed to fishing for many years. It is an offence to take fish other than kina from this bay. The line was seized and removed.

 

And the fine will be??? I reckon $500 max.

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