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Clunks... What's going on here?


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The skeptic in me doubts it....

That they suggest a sea trial with the Tech onboard suggests they were not able to replicate the problem and that they don’t actually know what was/is wrong  ...

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Surely Doc its time to go back to the builder? Presumably he was contracted supplied a vessel avec iron sails - in which case your best way forward may be with them not the engine manufacturer?

While undoubtedly your problem, the fault is not yours and all the while this goes back and forward - the closer you move to end of warranty. 

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That is a bullshit solution. Sounds like a junior tech or can't do anything more than service an engine (belts and oil level).

Not understanding how a sail drive gearbox works, it could be something to do with too much oil causing the cones to engage and disengage, but sail drives are mechanical gearboxes aren't they? If it only does it when the engine is hot, and the SD is running, it may be related to gearbox oil temp, expanding volume when hot. Certainly no confidence they either know what they are doing or have fixed it.

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Maybe do the sea trial with the tech on the throttle and get them to floor it for a good bit, if anything breaks I presume they will be responsible ? if not at least it gives you some confidence that it is not likely to be damaging. Its rare I suppose but there is a small chance it might self resolve with time if fuel related.

If they have a spare MDI maybe they could temporarily install that and so eliminate any possibility of it being caused by the smarts ? I assume it could only affect the fuel cutoff solenoid as mentioned earlier.

 

 

 

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I said check oil level in a much earlier post. Too much oil in the Box can cause big problems. The box will overheat badly and that can then cause damage to the clutch cones. Although I have never seen an engine do this before, I wouldn't say it can't. Maybe if the box is getting too hot, it is causing something weird to happen with the clutch grabbing. I assume it has the official Volvo Oil in the box. If it is some poorer quality and it is getting outside it's comfort range, the Oil may not be doing the lubricating job it needs to.
The Oil level must always be checked with the box in gear and at Idle. One of the really big problems occurs when these engines are mounted on a downward angle when coupled to a shaft. It is really hard to judge the correct oil level and the amount of Oil has to be just right. On a Saildrive, I expect the Engine/box to be level. So shouldn't be a problem.

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My experience with Volvo marine diesels is such that I would go for Yanmar every time. And if a boat I wanted to buy a had a Volvo that would almost certainly be a show-stopper for me.

Are they a lot cheaper than Yanmar? Is that why people put them in?

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Sorry Aleana, I disagree. I've seen pretty much all the brands out there have issues. The volvo base engines are fine. Some models have various issues, and that's mostly to do with the marinisation. They all can be sorted out and give good service. Same with Yanmar. And Beta, Nanni, etc. Some of those brands use the same base engines.

So, what's important is the marinisation, the installation, and the servicing.  Then clean plentiful air, clean oil of the correct spec, and a dry, clean engine room  will go a long way to giving any of these engines a good service life.

I have customers with over 20.000 hours on some diesels, but the average life expectancy of a yacht engine in NZ is 3000 hours. They usually don't wear out, they corrode away from lack of use! My old Volvo 2003T had 12,000 hours on it before it finally was not worth maintaining.

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I think it is because Volvo would have to be the most common installation to come across, that due to share numbers, you are going to come across more problems. As IT said, it is usually the additional parts for marinisation that cause issues on the engines themselves. And that tends to be across the board on all makes of engines. The only issue I have with Volvo is the price tag on parts.
 

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8 hours ago, wheels said:

I said check oil level in a much earlier post. Too much oil in the Box can cause big problems. The box will overheat badly and that can then cause damage to the clutch cones. Although I have never seen an engine do this before, I wouldn't say it can't. Maybe if the box is getting too hot, it is causing something weird to happen with the clutch grabbing. I assume it has the official Volvo Oil in the box. If it is some poorer quality and it is getting outside it's comfort range, the Oil may not be doing the lubricating job it needs to.
The Oil level must always be checked with the box in gear and at Idle. One of the really big problems occurs when these engines are mounted on a downward angle when coupled to a shaft. It is really hard to judge the correct oil level and the amount of Oil has to be just right. On a Saildrive, I expect the Engine/box to be level. So shouldn't be a problem.

You did indeed say to check it. unfortunately I was 1000km away by then :( Nonetheless, I'm kinda pissed about the level that was in there. I don't have  a measure on how much was "too much" (I will ask). Was it 1L too much ? 0.5L? just 100 mL? no specifics...

Mostly i'm annoyed because I paid professionals to take care of it while I'm miles away from the boat. True, I didn't check the oil level in the saildrive (I did the engine, cooling, battery etc. ) before this trip, as I expected (wrongly?) that the initial service guy would get it right, and that the guy who launched the boat only 1 week earlier would also check it along with the motor check he performed (I'm still to ask). What still amazes me though, is that the problem only turned up after 2 weeks and 20h of motoring, and a couple of those days included a few hours on the iron spinnaker at a time.

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If the clunk occurred only in neutral then it could be engaging gear spasmodically due to incorrect adjustment of selector or similar, the heat present could induce the selection if it was slightly off. When it clunks can you move just the gear selector arm slightly one way or another to see if the clunk goes away? But if it makes the noise when drive is engaged makes this less viable!!    Does it do it both in reverse or forward? Can you isolate the clunk to either the motor or saildrive? I have read about the oil type change for earlier saildrive models, has the oil been changed? Was it the correct type?

Lots of questions for a crazy problem.

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16 hours ago, wheels said:

I think it is because Volvo would have to be the most common installation to come across, that due to share numbers, you are going to come across more problems. As IT said, it is usually the additional parts for marinisation that cause issues on the engines themselves. And that tends to be across the board on all makes of engines. The only issue I have with Volvo is the price tag on parts.
 

I agree with the comments from IT and wheels and bear in mind  the core engine for the smaller volvos is a Shibaura/Perkins

Volvo then buy their engines from Perkins, all three names are on the OEM plate for my D1-20

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibaura_(company)

https://www.oemoffhighway.com/engines/press-release/10945825/perkins-and-ihi-shibaura-continue-joint-venture-to-bring-compact-engines-to-equipment-industry

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Ok, here's an update. Not a big one, but something nonetheless.

Got in touch with the professionals (composite boat builder and full service guys in Brest - recommended by Pogo Structures) who launched the boat in July before we got there. They essentially recommissioned after the extended winter layup. They were down there this week installing a new stanchion ...

Saildrive oil level check (and alt belt tension) was part of their prestart check-list. Nothing out of the ordinary, and certainly everything within tolerance. 

So, although we don't know yet how much oil the Volvo tech removed from the saildrive, it sounds like it was not a lot, and certainly not enough "too much" to cause overheating or other trouble etc. 

So we're still none the wiser w.r.t. identifying the actual problem here.

 

Bummer...

 

 

 

 

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On 29/08/2020 at 12:15 AM, DrWatson said:

So, although we don't know yet how much oil the Volvo tech removed from the saildrive, it sounds like it was not a lot, and certainly not enough "too much" to cause overheating or other trouble etc. 

So we're still none the wiser w.r.t. identifying the actual problem here.

I forgot about this.
No not at all Doc. Just a little bit over is enough to cause major issues. If anything, it is best to be slightly under than over with the oil level.
Especially if the Engine/box install is on a downward angle for a direct to shaft coupling, these things become a major headache. Advice was to fill with exactly the quantity of oil the service manual stated the box takes and not to use the Dip stick at all. And in one case I know of, the mechanic reduced even that amount of oil. Even slightly reduced, there is enough oil to get picked up and run around all gears and bearings.

I can't be sure, as I have never known just why a slightly over fill box causes so much grief. But I have always thought the addition of a little Moreys For Oil additive would help. This stuff increase the EP strength and the oil "sticks" to anything that moves and gets carried around all gears and into bearings even if they are clear of the main bath of oil.

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