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28 minutes ago, Tamure said:

Eff the rules, I'm not a baby. We are becoming more like poms every day with rules for everything, all under the guise of "safety" 

Most 'safety' rules are primarily for your own benefit. The lockdown rules are for the greater good, i.e. to bring a benefit to the wider society, but it only works if everyone does there bit. And that is regardless of if you agree with the rules or not.

Like I said before, I don't see a problem with going sailing.

But its the govt's ability to manage it, and the time required to assess any decisions. In the big scheme of things, SME's on the verge of bankruptcy, wide spread job losses, family violence and suicides, I just don't see being able to go sailing ever registering on the 'must spend time thinking about it list' of any worthwhile decision makers at the moment. They have far bigger issues to deal with.

And I must say, I'm getting a bit bored hearing people whine about the same thing. Adapt to the conditions, register your boat as a commercial vessel, and go sailing. Get a wind surfer and go sailing. Not worth the time, cause its only a 2 week lockdown this time? STFU and go sailing the weekend after next...

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Most 'safety' rules are primarily for your own benefit. The lockdown rules are for the greater good, i.e. to bring a benefit to the wider society, but it only works if everyone does there bit. And tha

^contrary to popular opinion, its not all about you  

if its a numbers game regarding coastguard rescues of yachties then how about some numbers? I think it would be astonishingly small from my casual observation. Its a very weak argument, as the chances

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Most 'safety' rules are primarily for your own benefit. The lockdown rules are for the greater good, i.e. to bring a benefit to the wider society, but it only works if everyone does there bit. And that is regardless of if you agree with the rules or not.

Safety rules are generally trending downwards to the lowest common denominator, the for your own good argument is a slippery bureaucratic slope. Sometimes people whose job it is to make rules just keep on making them. Ultimately the safest place with maximum rules and security is a prison. But hey but Fish dont ever an opportunity to make a straw man get past you to have a crack at me. No one is arguing about the benefit of community buy in or agreement, its about boats sailing for sporting pleasure upon the harbour. One group of "serious" boys with their toys who can and another who cant.

Piss poor optics don't you think? I know quite a few yachties who think it sucks.

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Like I said before, I don't see a problem with going sailing.

Then how about getting on board with team local yachtsman instead of team rules?

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But its the govt's ability to manage it, and the time required to assess any decisions. In the big scheme of things, SME's on the verge of bankruptcy, wide spread job losses, family violence and suicides, I just don't see being able to go sailing ever registering on the 'must spend time thinking about it list' of any worthwhile decision makers at the moment. They have far bigger issues to deal with.

Err, but they have enough time to think about and prioritise  TNZ et al to go merrily sailing about the harbour. Obviously an essential service like commercial fishing and whatnot (yeah right)

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And I must say, I'm getting a bit bored hearing people whine about the same thing. Adapt to the conditions, register your boat as a commercial vessel, and go sailing. Get a wind surfer and go sailing. Not worth the time, cause its only a 2 week lockdown this time? STFU and go sailing the weekend after next...

How about save your electrons, emotional wellness and not waste any of your valuable time replying?

I appreciate the govt's doing what it can, according to some on here I am left of Marx and would install a communist regime if given a chance, but I am not a baby and when the state locks me down and deprives me the use of my vessel that I pay for every second of my ownership then I will speak up when I see a glaring contradiction. So jump on your paddle board have a nice time but I am writing to my local MP because the next lockdown is coming, and the one after that...

Nie ma wolności bez Solidarności!

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Tamure said:

Safety rules are generally trending downwards to the lowest common denominator, the for your own good argument is a slippery bureaucratic slope. Sometimes people whose job it is to make rules just keep on making them. Ultimately the safest place with maximum rules and security is a prison. But hey but Fish dont ever an opportunity to make a straw man get past you to have a crack at me. No one is arguing about the benefit of community buy in or agreement, its about boats sailing for sporting pleasure upon the harbour. One group of "serious" boys with their toys who can and another who cant.

Piss poor optics don't you think? I know quite a few yachties who think it sucks.

Then how about getting on board with team local yachtsman instead of team rules?

Err, but they have enough time to think about and prioritise  TNZ et al to go merrily sailing about the harbour. Obviously an essential service like commercial fishing and whatnot (yeah right)

How about save your electrons, emotional wellness and not waste any of your valuable time replying?

I appreciate the govt's doing what it can, according to some on here I am left of Marx and would install a communist regime if given a chance, but I am not a baby and when the state locks me down and deprives me the use of my vessel that I pay for every second of my ownership then I will speak up when I see a glaring contradiction. So jump on your paddle board have a nice time but I am writing to my local MP because the next lockdown is coming, and the one after that...

Nie ma wolności bez Solidarności!

So Tamure, Firstly, I respect your view, and I agree with your basic sentiment that there is no problem with sailing at L3. But there is a couple of things going on here.

Your initial question was, why are the America's Cup teams allowed to train, and we can't go for a Sunday sail. The answer to that was fairly simple, they are commercial and we are not. More so, when the Govt AND Council have poured in some ridiculous amount of money, the vested interest there isn't about to shut it down. And on the same point, the analogy of freight trucks being able to cross the Auckland border, but us not being able to drive over in a car is valid.

So I'm with you on that. Where we differ is what to do about it.

People react to stress and anxiety in different ways. Most of the time, people don't even realise they are stressed or anxious, they just feel really really grumpy... It is widely apparent on social media, with a change in tone and mood of a lot of stuff. My coping mechanism is to not try and fight it, but to find something positive to focus on, and find positive outlets for my energy. Example A, there is going to be good waves at Orewa from Wednesday onwards, so I'm looking forward to a good surf :-) I might even try and get my work done quicker today so I can sneak off earlier tomorrow. i.e. a positive focus to motivate me through another day of working at home with board kids in the house.

Others may choose to tackle the problem head on, lobby MP's, set up a lobby group etc. That is good too, if it works for you, and it is something constructive to channel your energy into. What can happen though, is people can just sit around in a festering ball of negativity, getting angry about it, but not actually dealing with it. Usually venting on facebook or some other pointless echo chamber. I don't think that is a good thing to do, its not good for mental health and wellbeing. This is not a criticism, I want to make that clear. I've family members that do it, and I can do it myself. What I try to do now, is keep a self awareness of what I am doing, and how I am feeling, and if I'm getting excessively grumpy, to break out of it. That is normally by getting some salt water in my face (surfing) or getting out into the marine environment (paddle boarding), or, if I'm really missing the boat, going and spending massive amounts of $$$$'s on something marine related, just to remind myself of the feeling of owning a boat ;-)

So thats my view on it, possibly the same as how some people don't want to see all the smalltalk BS, they pefer to just stay out of it all. Apologies if it sounds all about me, but that is how I deal with the situation.

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11 hours ago, Fish said:

Most 'safety' rules are primarily for your own benefit. The lockdown rules are for the greater good, i.e. to bring a benefit to the wider society, but it only works if everyone does there bit. And that is regardless of if you agree with the rules or not.

Like I said before, I don't see a problem with going sailing.

But its the govt's ability to manage it, and the time required to assess any decisions. In the big scheme of things, SME's on the verge of bankruptcy, wide spread job losses, family violence and suicides, I just don't see being able to go sailing ever registering on the 'must spend time thinking about it list' of any worthwhile decision makers at the moment. They have far bigger issues to deal with.

And I must say, I'm getting a bit bored hearing people whine about the same thing. Adapt to the conditions, register your boat as a commercial vessel, and go sailing. Get a wind surfer and go sailing. Not worth the time, cause its only a 2 week lockdown this time? STFU and go sailing the weekend after next...

In this instance I have to agree but the rule creators are out of control in this country. Its an industry and self perpetuating for same to draw their salaries.

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44 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

then bugger off to the USA.  They love your approach over there.

200,000 deaths, and counting...

I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick there. I took that as lateral was agreeing with the approach to C19 management / priorities, but has an issue with the level of H&S rules and the associated non-productive industry around that. I have to agree on the excessive level of regulations around H&S.

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NZ has an unenviable record of deaths by accident, especially in the workplace.  We are lacsidasical.  We tend to dismiss or downplay hazards.  We take significant risks that we consider are personal with little or no regard to the social costs.  Every year we drown, die of exposure, fall to our deaths, are crushed, run over, or burnt to death in numbers that would not be acceptable in any other developed country.

Meanwhile, every worker and employer and by extension every person in the country subsidises this mass rejection of personal responsiblity.  We pay for the stupidity, carelessness or miscalculation of others and ourselves to the tune of $4.4b of levies (2019 year).

The Rules are an attempt to reduce this cost and the non-financial damage.

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14 hours ago, Tamure said:

 I fail to see the logic of not letting me go yachting.

But you can. Buy a dozen cold beer and pick me up on the way to the boat, yours or mine, I'm knot fussed.

Which then begs the question why can't you go sailing but I can but then you can as long as I'm there....note: we may have to pretend you're my bitch be it a employee version or wife/husband version......please if push comes to shove can we use the employer/employee angle. My prettiest days have come and gone but I reckon I can still pull a better set of pins than yours ;)

Don't that piss ya off, I can go 'testing' as I'm in the game and we all know how important it is to test halyards on a regular basis. I did ask Team Doodleda on Sunday and they said as long as I can prove I am what I say they are fine with me going out for a sail BUT I do have to keep local i.e. if I leave Westhaven they expect me to stay between North Head and Kauri Point maximum. I also have to observe social distancing and bubbles which means I can only take people who I work/live with sort of thing, I can take the owner or a representative. Oh and a test sail is an hour or 2 maximum sort of thing.

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The point of lockdown is to reduce the risk of covid transmission. So keep in your bubble. Your yacht is your bubble? - absolutely agree - you are pretty isolated, much more than if you are shopping at the supermarket for example. However, if you get into trouble, then Coastguard is expected to come and assist. This exposes them to a risk if you are infected, and as a Coastguard volunteer, I fully agree with not having to expose myself to that risk. S0- no boating.

HOWEVER-   as a yachty, I want to sail - so to avoid the rescue services problem, why not make a simple rule, you can go sailing - in company with at least one other vessel. If either of you get into trouble, the other one can tow you home. Nobody else involved.-, isolation achieved.

SO..... wrote to the Minister of Sport and suggested the above simple rule. Response - " your comment has nothing to do with the Minister of Sport- we have passed your comment on to the MInister of Economic Development"!!!!

Ah well, I did try. Seriously though, I think it's about time that the body we all pay yachting levies to, went to bat on our behalf, this lockdown business, on again and off again, is possibly going to go on for a couple of years

 

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if its a numbers game regarding coastguard rescues of yachties then how about some numbers? I think it would be astonishingly small from my casual observation. Its a very weak argument, as the chances of a road accident are in orders of magnitude greater but i dont see ambo staff jumping up and down or being used as an excuse to stop driving?

We all understand the aim of lockdown, its the inconsistent application and justification of rules thats the discussion here. How about saying if you go boating you are on your own and you cant land on Barrier, Rakino, Kawau or Waiheke etc...

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