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6 hours ago, Fish said:

Slightly related, Tahiti PM catches it.

The latest official figure showed French Polyensia had 2754 cases of which 633 were active.

In July, the borders were reopened and mandatory quarantine requirements were abolished in order to boost tourism and revive the economy.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/428117/french-polynesia-president-tests-covid-19-positive

 

FP Active cases.png

FP Daily New Cases.png

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Meanwhile, 450 Russian sailors are coming in to work on NZ boats... Admittedly, I have a vague idea why NZer's wouldn't want to work in deep sea fishing for 6 months at a time, even though there is a large number of NZ'ers loosing their jobs.

But it shows the borders can be opened fairly easily, if you've made the appropriate donations to the appropriate secretive political foundation one would assume (reference to NZ First being in the pocket of the fishing industry).

From a practical point of view, the fishing companies are paying for the isolation, but I thought the whole issue was the constraints on capacity and suitably qualified / experienced isolation staff - hence why the cruisers couldn't come in.

The only issue after that is when will the cruisers leave again. The UK family want to leave as fast as they can. Russian sailors, there is fairly good rules around those guys not staying in the country. I'd be fascinated how those guys will go in isolation, sure they are used to being stuck on a ship for ages, but I don't know, I've got a stereotype in my head of heavy boozing and fighting.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123082031/russians-jet-in-to-save-new-zealands-beleaguered-deepsea-fishing-industry

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One of the key issues for the govt may be the exit options for anyone entering NZ.  Ths is where the cruising fraternity run foul.

Anyone entering on a specific purposes work visa HAS to have a statement from the employer guaranteeing return or repatriation at the end of the visa.  I know - I write them.  Fruit pickers, russian fishers, american AC sailors, strippers and CEOs all have to have a repatriation guarantee.

Visitor visa holders do not.  It has just been assumed that they will go.  Currently, that cannot be assumed since there may well be nowhere for them to go.  This especially while COVID-19 MkII is now spreading across the northern hemisphere.

Forget about what the quarintine requirements might be if cruisers enter - I'm picking that is not the issue.  The issue is probably exit strategy and the risk of them becoming long-term residents by accident.

 

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Eh???

If they hold UK passports they can return to the UK anytime. They will have to do 2 weeks quarantine but there is nothing stopping a UK citizen returning the UK from anywhere in the world at any time. Same as NZ citizens coming home here.

Or have I missed your point?

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You are correct Fogg, but then how come they can't return to the UK from FP? There are flights from there to Europe, possibly direct I think.

I think the point is that these other essential visa holders all have a third party guaranteeing they will be repatriated. The cruisers will use visitors visas, which don't have that third party guarantee. Given their current argument for needing to leave FP (visa expired) and needing to come to NZ (no where else to go), there is a high likelihood that at least a proportion of these cruisers either wont want to or wont be able to leave NZ again...

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11 minutes ago, Fish said:

I think the point is that these other essential visa holders all have a third party guaranteeing they will be repatriated. The cruisers will use visitors visas, which don't have that third party guarantee. Given their current argument for needing to leave FP (visa expired) and needing to come to NZ (no where else to go), there is a high likelihood that at least a proportion of these cruisers either wont want to or wont be able to leave NZ again...

well maybe if they are to be let in the government should follow French Polynesia's long term practice of requiring a repatriation bond for all crew, if they do not have a onwards airfare

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25 minutes ago, Fogg said:

Eh???

If they hold UK passports they can return to the UK anytime. They will have to do 2 weeks quarantine but there is nothing stopping a UK citizen returning the UK from anywhere in the world at any time. Same as NZ citizens coming home here.

Or have I missed your point?

This specific family probably could Fogg, yes.  At the moment.  If the UK goes to the NZ or Aussie model and significantly constrains inbound travel, that may change.

And that is the presenting problem.  Literally nowhere is able to give certainty about how they will treat their border during COVID.

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11 minutes ago, Fish said:

You are correct Fogg, but then how come they can't return to the UK from FP? There are flights from there to Europe, possibly direct I think.

Fish... As a side note. The mother wrote me to say that they have no place to keep the boat around Tahiti other than a mooring. It's reportedly a $1M asset the sale of which is their only pathway back to having a home in the UK. She says that there is no hull insurance available to them in Tahiti where they could try to sell the boat. They can fly back to the UK... but what to do with the boat which they must sell? 

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2 minutes ago, 2flit said:

Fish... As a side note. The mother wrote me to say that they have no place to keep the boat around Tahiti other than a mooring. It's reportedly a $1M asset the sale of which is their only pathway back to having a home in the UK. She says that there is no hull insurance available to them in Tahiti where they could try to sell the boat. They can fly back to the UK... but what to do with the boat which they must sell? 

Hire a NZ crew to fly up (or sail up) and bring it back.

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1 minute ago, 2flit said:

Fish... As a side note. The mother wrote me to say that they have no place to keep the boat around Tahiti other than a mooring. It's reportedly a $1M asset the sale of which is their only pathway back to having a home in the UK. She says that there is no hull insurance available to them in Tahiti where they could try to sell the boat. They can fly back to the UK... but what to do with the boat which they must sell? 

I've no problem with them coming here. From the photos it looks like an Oyster 50 something, which is likely worth in the region of what they are talking about. The NZ market is hot for good sized family holiday / cruising boats. I have little doubt they will sell it here quickly. Might struggle to get a marina berth though...

For the wider cruiser fraternity, I think the issues are around the visitor visa and ability to leave later. I would have thought, as MH suggests, a pragmatic solution is a repatriation bond just as FP already use. I do hope that after the election, some things loosen up, whilst maintaining tight virus border control. Just the voyage time from Tahiti to here is going to be very, very effective qurantine. It is not like these guys have transited through a virus ridden airport lounge 10 hrs before touching down at Opua marina...

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It's a Discovery 55. Better than an Oyster IMO (the later ones at least).

I think the difference between these guys and normal cruisers is the tragic death of their 14yr boy. This prospect would bring a chill to the spine of any sailing parent.

So the family are obviously already emotionally traumatised and they are trying to avoid being financially traumatised as well- which as we all know would further emotionally affect them etc.

So I do think there is an unusual (tragic) aspect to their case which few general policies would cater for - hence a fresh review is warranted in this case I feel.

Getting a delivery crew to sail it to NZ could be difficult too. I've just bought a new boat in Asia (yes it was a much better deal than if I had bought it in NZ hence the reason I did it). And it's nigh-on impossible to find a delivery crew to do any ocean trips right now what with the border uncertainties, health risks and quarantine complications etc. So the only option left is shipping and regardless of cost - I don't even know if it would be an option to get a large yacht safely cradled & shipped from FP to NZ via cargo ship anyway.

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31 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

 If the UK goes to the NZ or Aussie model and significantly constrains inbound travel, that may change.

I don't think it could. Under international law no country can prevent a legitimate passport-holding citizen from returning home - assuming that citizen can find a way to present themselves to their home country's border i.e. via land, sea or air.

The only exceptions are for security threats e.g. known or suspected terrorists.

Otherwise, a country would effectively be making it's citizens 'stateless' meaning they could not travel anywhere - not even back to their own home country. Which is illegal unless done for the security reason above - which is very rare. 

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2 minutes ago, Fogg said:

I don't think it could. Under international law no country can prevent a legitimate passport-holding citizen from returning to it's country - assuming that citizen can find a way to present themselves to the border i.e. via land, sea or air.

The only exceptions are for security threats e.g. known or suspected terrorists.

Otherwise, a country would effectively be making it's citizens 'stateless' meaning they could not travel anywhere - not even back to their own home country. Which is illegal unless done for the security reason above - which is very rare. 

Its not the border, its the availability of flights, and lining up the requirement to book MIQ in some cases. Literally the ability to get to the border.

But yes, I would have thought this family should have been given compassionate grounds. Easy for a faceless bureaucrat to say no, then a smiling PM to say yes in a public way 3 days out from an election. Optics look better ay?

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34 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

Hire a NZ crew to fly up (or sail up) and bring it back.

Good point, we read on a Facebook site where a NZ citizen offered to sail a boat to NZ.... if someone was "stuck" with their boat and could not come to New Zealand.

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16 minutes ago, Fogg said:

... assuming that citizen can find a way to present themselves to their home country's border i.e. via land, sea or air.

And there is the rub.  Having sold the yacht, our hypothetical sailor is pretty much limited to returning to the UK on commercial flights.  If the govt of the day restricts seat numbers inbound (as we have) the effect is the same regardless of the citizen's rights. - they join a queue of people trying to book a seat.

I understand the PM has sent this specific situation back to the MoH for a closer look.  She definitely will not want to get involved as decisionmaker but has likely given some "direction and guidance" to MoH.

Kindly, of course.

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Actually it's surprisingly easy to get to the UK on commercial flights right now. One of my best friends did it last week - Singapore Air had flights every other day out of Auckland to Singapore and onto London. He sent me a video of the flight - here it is below. if it was other way around then a European government looking at NZ might be concerned how long the queue would be to get onto a flight here. But going the other way it's not an issue and unlikely to become one. My friend wasn't even stopped or questioned at Heathrow either at Immigration or Customs - just waved through a very quiet airport.

 

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