Jump to content

Seafaring nation?


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Fish said:

Its not July, its October. In a month it will be November.

You can go from Tahiti to Europe via Cape Horn, just like some french guy did back in the early 60's, or you could head west, across the top of Aust, across the Indian Ocean and take your pick of the Suez Canal or Cape of Good Hope. By the time you get to Good Hope, it will be Christmas and a few less storms. There is enough of the world's navies around Suez now for it to be safe as houses. Just as long as no one starts a war in any number of the countries in that general area... All you need is a reliable water maker, (either an RO unit, or a tarp with a hole in it...) and quiet a few tins of food.

Plenty have sailed half way around the world none stop. The issue is probably more the wanting to, and the inertia of changing plans from where you actually want to go. Or the hope that some closer country will be reasonable and let you in. Especially if you offer to spend $50k at the first boat yard you find.

Fish, if you think the average cruising boat, or crew, is up to a trip around Cape Horn, you are sadly mistaken. You are underestimating the difficulties of that voyage, and the suitability of these vessels and their crews. Mostly. Some could, but they would be uncommon exceptions. 

The other way (W) is possible, and boats go that way every year. However most of these boats would not have the endurance to do a non stop voyage of more than a month, they's need fuel, gas and provisions along the way. Right now they cant get any of that. Anywhere.

Most cruisers take YEARS to complete a circumnavigation, they did not plan on extended continuous voyages, and their boats are not set up for that.

What you, and others on here are suggesting is not, IMO feasible.

I think if this goes on much longer, some will try to stay where they are (legally or not), and try to weather a cyclone if they are unlucky enough to encounter one. Some will abandon their or try to sell  boats and fly home, others will try what the German crew did, and some will try to sneak into countries that are closed.  It would be a difficult decision, whatever way they choose.

I'm sure glad its not me out there this year.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sabre said:

More due to paranoid hysteria than any reality.

Do you mean the paranoid hysteria that has been the forefront of the NZ Govt, specifically Jacinda, for months and is the basis of the labour parties election campaign today? Join the dots dude.....

So just hold ya waters until the election is done and I'm sure the cruisers will be allowed in.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Customs at Opua and Covid 19
Some of our team went over to Opua Marina to check out the Covid 19 processes.
When the Covid Lock Down Levels had gone up, we looked to hold checkpoints on State Highway 1 at Waiomio.
Yet, we don't keep such a surveillance on our coastlines and especially with the tourist season starting to ramp up and yachts starting to enter our waters.
A very interesting point is that Customs NZ was first established on 5 January 1840, when the first Head of Customs was appointed in Kōrōrārēka!
So our team hooked up at the Opua Customs office with David Radovanovich and Mike Ford of Customs NZ to check out the processes and systems being employed by them to keep our borders tight.
Customs along with other agencies have been working on the management of this year’s small craft (yacht) arrival season, including at Ōpua.
The clearance of all craft is something Customs undertakes as normal business, this year is vastly different because of COVID19.
Some key points of the plan include how arriving yachts will be separated from public off shore and how contact will be managed until isolation period of 14 days and testing has been satisfied.
The isolation period includes time at sea. If a yacht arrives before the 12 days the vessel will be berthed and crew transferred to a managed isolation in Auckland to make up the 14 days.
• All vessels arriving into NZ must isolate for 14 days, however this starts from their last port or the last contact they had with other people. This means yachts who take ten days to get here alone will only have four days of isolation remaining.
• All crew on small craft arriving at Opua are required to be tested for COVID, and this will occur ashore near the secure Customs berth. All testing will be isolated from the public and the same cleaning and hygiene standards for testing at other ports followed.
 
So why aren't they letting cruisers in again?
 
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Fish said:

Its not July, its October. In a month it will be November.

You can go from Tahiti to Europe via Cape Horn, just like some french guy did back in the early 60's, or you could head west, across the top of Aust, across the Indian Ocean and take your pick of the Suez Canal or Cape of Good Hope. By the time you get to Good Hope, it will be Christmas and a few less storms. There is enough of the world's navies around Suez now for it to be safe as houses. Just as long as no one starts a war in any number of the countries in that general area... All you need is a reliable water maker, (either an RO unit, or a tarp with a hole in it...) and quiet a few tins of food.

Plenty have sailed half way around the world none stop. The issue is probably more the wanting to, and the inertia of changing plans from where you actually want to go. Or the hope that some closer country will be reasonable and let you in. Especially if you offer to spend $50k at the first boat yard you find.

This is not serious I hope.

 

Ah, I see IT has covered it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Island Time said:

Fish, if you think the average cruising boat, or crew, is up to a trip around Cape Horn, you are sadly mistaken. You are underestimating the difficulties of that voyage, and the suitability of these vessels and their crews. Mostly. Some could, but they would be uncommon exceptions. 

The other way (W) is possible, and boats go that way every year. However most of these boats would not have the endurance to do a non stop voyage of more than a month, they's need fuel, gas and provisions along the way. Right now they cant get any of that. Anywhere.

Most cruisers take YEARS to complete a circumnavigation, they did not plan on extended continuous voyages, and their boats are not set up for that.

What you, and others on here are suggesting is not, IMO feasible.

I think if this goes on much longer, some will try to stay where they are (legally or not), and try to weather a cyclone if they are unlucky enough to encounter one. Some will abandon their or try to sell  boats and fly home, others will try what the German crew did, and some will try to sneak into countries that are closed.  It would be a difficult decision, whatever way they choose.

I'm sure glad its not me out there this year.

Can Someone Please explain to me why the German cruisers who have EU passports (which allow them to stay in French Polynesia long term) .... why they can not have just stayed there or sailed back there to one of the two hurricane safe areas in FP?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting thread, some people just love rules and bureaucracy (perhaps to cover for their real reasons) . On a practical human level if these guys knocked on my door,  i'd help them.  They present about zero risk of covid introduction. So much for us bleating on about Manus Island etc... I think its pretty mean spirited. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

This is not serious I hope.

 

Ah, I see IT has covered it. 

If I was being silly,  I would have proposed going over the top of Canada, which if you left Tahiti in July, would have been open in August. Then its just a short hop to Hamburg.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Island Time said:

Fish, if you think the average cruising boat, or crew, is up to a trip around Cape Horn, you are sadly mistaken. You are underestimating the difficulties of that voyage, and the suitability of these vessels and their crews. Mostly. Some could, but they would be uncommon exceptions. 

The other way (W) is possible, and boats go that way every year. However most of these boats would not have the endurance to do a non stop voyage of more than a month, they's need fuel, gas and provisions along the way. Right now they cant get any of that. Anywhere.

No, the point I am making is that there are a number of options available. They are just not as attractive as doing what you had planned to do from the start. And its not clear why they can't provision in FP, other than that it is expensive.

More to the point, there is no shortage of flights into and out of FP, especially to Europe. The issue here is what to do with the boat. The last RNZ story on the Germans (the one with some actual details in it) indicated the underlying problem was the commercial terms to secure hauled out storage. Tahiti has a reputation for being hellishly expensive at the best of times. I imagine if there is high demand for hard stand space, the frogs will be price gouging. 

What I don't understand, is in a La Nina year, it sounds like there is as much chance of a cyclone in NZ as there is in Tahiti. Our last year was 2018, when we had 3. Golden Bay got munted, remember? Its not clear to me why these boats can't be left in the water in FP, and the crew fly home, other than cost.

And on the topic of the horn, or heading west and the range of boats, if you spend enough money, you can equip boats for the range. The point I am making is there are other options, but NZ is the easiest. The most obvious alternative we aren't discussing is Fiji, they are open.

The narrative that is being put buy you guys is that there are NO other options, and these boats MUST come to NZ. That is not correct. NZ is the easiest and cheapest option. This is why the OCC guy couldn't give a compelling argument.

And I think the underlying issue is not these guys coming into NZ, but when will they leave again? Once they are here, it is a bit rough to kick them out again in a years time if they whole world is still shut down. So what do we end up with, hundreds of yachts parked in every quiet bay up the northland coast, pooing away and catching all the fish? No disrespect to cruisers and live aboards, but it works now cause there aren't many of them (and there are more Kiwi's living aboard cause they couldn't get up to the islands). It would be a different proposition if you have 500 additional boats permanently living aboard in every desirable summer cruising ground.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting proposal from some of the 'Superyacht agents" here to allow "High Net Worth Individuals" in to isolate on their own boats , perhaps this exemption should be more widely known. Luckily I dont believe many are going to try that loophole as the cup will be a flash in the pan and best experienced with a TV and a glass of wine on North Head.

Without the magnificent J boats coming a lot of the interest has gone for me, hopefully the Coastal will see three or four Melges 40 battling it out and we can all concentrate on good yachting locally. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, waikiore said:

cup will be a flash in the pan and best experienced with a TV and a glass of wine on North Head.

You will be very old and very grey by the time you get to and from North Head with the traffic the way it is and bugger all parking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 2flit said:

Can Someone Please explain to me why the German cruisers who have EU passports (which allow them to stay in French Polynesia long term) .... why they can not have just stayed there or sailed back there to one of the two hurricane safe areas in FP?

 

One of the reasons may be the costs of staying there .

i did two winters working there 20 years ago . A trundler full of groceries back then would usually come in @ 700-750 NZD . The rule of thumb was that everything was 3x more expensive than in France and France is not cheap 

Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon Sabre, you're going to have to articulate yourself better than with just a down vote. Are you disagreeing with what I'm saying, or how I'm saying it?

If you've got a counter to my argument, I'd been keen to hear it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Fish said:

C'mon Sabre, you're going to have to articulate yourself better than with just a down vote. Are you disagreeing with what I'm saying, or how I'm saying it?

If you've got a counter to my argument, I'd been keen to hear it?

No I don't have to, yes and yes and I already have 🤘

I have made my thoughts very clear.

Your stance imo is ludicrous. Suggesting yachts and crew could simply head home around the horn even just to make a nonsensical point is beyond ridiculous.

Contrary to your post, to the best of my recollection no one has stated that coming to NZ is the ONLY option for the cruisers however it is probably the safest, simplist and most sensible option.

I wonder if you were sitting in the cockpit having a nice cold beer with some of these cruisers if you would be happy to make the same suggestions to their face?

Many of these cruisers will be advancing in years, have worked  hard all their lives and are now having a crack at fulfilling the bucket list trip of their lifetime and you are suggesting tuff titties? fack off back to your country of origin because you are either paranoid about a virus they don't have or you are fiercely loyal to the government's stance on foriegn cruisers?

Is empathy and common sense completely out of fashion? 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Calm down Sabre, and let the emotion settle down a bit. You are saying several things there that I did not say and don't agree with. You are conflating a number of issues.

I am not at all concerned about these guys bringing the virus in. They'd all be sick as a dog before they got here if they had it. I'm actually fairly concerned how a boat could leave a place like Tahiti that is virus ridden, and the risk of coming down with it mid passage. There is near-zero risk of any cruiser brining the virus in. The issue is how long they will stay for when they get here.

Now, we might get into quibbling a bit here, but isn't this what the OCC has been saying "lives and property are at risk", "this is a humanitarian issue" etc

Contrary to your post, to the best of my recollection no one has stated that coming to NZ is the ONLY option for the cruisers however it is probably the safest, simplist and most sensible option.

Yes, coming to NZ is the simplest and easiest. But it is not the only option.

The issue, as you have said, comes back to fairness. I have a family member, who is an NZ citizen (the born here variety) who has worked hard all his life, not far off retirement, who took an overseas posting for a year, and is currently stuck in Brazil because there is no physical way to get home (closed borders, no transits) and is logistically very challenged in shifting his worldly possessions etc, not to mention job prospects and not having a home here to move back into etc etc

Many of these cruisers will be advancing in years, have worked  hard all their lives and are now having a crack at fulfilling the bucket list trip of their lifetime and you are suggesting tuff titties? fack off back to your country of origin because you are either paranoid about a virus they don't have or you are fiercely loyal to the government's stance on foriegn cruisers?

The fact of the matter is, there is a global pandemic that is f**king a few things up for a few people. Sometimes life is sh*t. Yes, tuff titties. The border was closed for very good reason. But what does a closed border mean? When is a border closed but not closed? When we close it, but let people in anyway? Is that still a closed border?

In reality, world cruising is dead for a number of years. Boats suitable for world cruising are not going to have a high resale value, unless they are good for local cruising or living aboard (which many will be), and you can get them to somewhere they can be cruised or lived on. Anyone thinking they can complete that particular bucket list item now of sailing around the world is not facing the reality of the situation.

Trying to put an argument that these guys should be able to complete their bucket list is not a strong argument. My kids should be able to go to school for a full term. People should be able to visit their parents in resthomes, say goodbye before the die, and attend their funeral too.

I do think it would be fair and reasonable for the cruisers to come in, park their boats up and fly home within a number of days. They should be given an exit option. I don't think they should be able to come in and stay for the 2, 3 or 4 years its going to take until they can legitimately carry on around the world. That is the reality of it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My emotions are just fine and dandy thank you Fish. You asked for my opinion even though it is already well stated. There it is. 

You are still trying to over complicate a very simple issue imo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Sabre said:

My emotions are just fine and dandy thank you Fish. You asked for my opinion even though it is already well stated. There it is. 

You are still trying to over complicate a very simple issue imo.

Appreciate your reply. My apologies if I've over complicated it. Sometimes the obvious aspects are not the important ones. Example being I don't think the issue is these cruisers coming here, I think (from an immigration / govt point of view) is how long are they going to stay?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 2flit said:

Can Someone Please explain to me why the German cruisers who have EU passports (which allow them to stay in French Polynesia long term) .... why they can not have just stayed there or sailed back there to one of the two hurricane safe areas in FP?

 

No, because no one knows, they were held incommunicado here. Perhaps we will find out when they get back to Germany 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

Hey fish, saying that liveaboard cruisers poo in the water and catch all the fish is untrue and borderline offensive. 

Sorry BP, I was using that to highlight where things would end up if we have a substantial fleet of world cruisers stuck in NZ for a few years.

I am wrong, and I withdraw the comment. And I'm not trying to cast aspersions on your ability to fish, but there is no way you'd catch all of the fish ;-)

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...