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And Wheals, your and KM’s keenness to chastise anyone who asks questions perplexes me, and your rush to the defence without having the information, only creates more questions.

Knot the questions as such, just the tone in which they were asked.

I have asked the questions, most were just the same as yours as I'd say most peoples are. I have had a chat with the skipper himself. He isn't an inexperienced 1st timer, most of them weren't.

 

For my money, from my armchair, and only working on little limited information from a junior crew member so I don't really know anything, they were under done and f&^#(n lucky.

 

Anyone who has to write to a chat room to find out what it takes is not ready for offshore.

Never wanted to know more by asking someone at the yachty, read a book from the library, watch a documentary or maybe ask a question on a yachting website? A YNZ Inspector has asked question on Crew. Doesn't he know enough or it it just you who knows more?

 

Sorry but that was a silly statement B. Yes, that was very much a tongue in cheek question as none of us knows everything, so I would think any input from any source is nothing but good.

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Smithy,

 

Anyone who has to write to a chat room to find out what it takes is not ready for offshore.

That's a bit lame, Bagging someone for asking advice.

 

Bagging them? Lol u should see bagging them.

 

Just suggesting they read another book about it before they go!!

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I have re read this thread and a few others and I reckon people have the view that cruisers are taking it easy so prep is less important - I think that is crap as with less crew you want less to go wrong. I reckon the attitude invites OSH etc to make it hard for you to play that game cos Darwin is going to get you otherwise.

 

And that's another example of apparent arrogance. The inference from that statement is that if you're not racing you're not properly prepared and you need to be regulated because you're too stupid to dress yourself.

 

Here's a classic example of how well prepared all race boats are - one of the race boats heading off to Fiji in the 2010 Auckland to Fiji race turned back and sheltered from crappy weather, but found they had to check in and check out at Opua because they'd set out on a 1200 mile ocean race with empty water tanks. They had some very experienced crew members on that boat but they still overlooked something so blindingly obvious.

 

And while we're at it, Brucey's recommendation to drink at least one bottle of rum and then start on the second while you're working on solving your steering problems illustrates the height of irresponsibility and the poorest of seamanship that I've heard for a very long time. Topped only by a very experienced ocean sailor deciding to go on a rum bender as the yacht we were on approached landfall at night on NZ's busy northeast coast.

 

Neither experience, nor racing miles makes you smart or invincible. The sea doesn't care, it'll take experienced sailors and newbies alike.

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Sorry Grinna,

 

The Rum reference was an obviously poor attempt at humor to lighten the Friday afternoon.

 

Anyway we would have had Coke with it to make sure we stayed awake!

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Er which bit is the arrogant bit Grinna?

 

This is getting hysterical - no information, an excited first hand account and a huge upswelling of good on ya son. Hope MOT or whoever polices departures isnt watching.

 

And since when was querying the story and looking for facts a bad thing - Brucey has tried to get a bit more information the whole way through - none has been forthcoming.

 

I reckon this gets worse the more I hear - so only half the rudder was flapping - then tie the fucker off somewhere near amidships and get on with it. 35 knots and 4-6metre swells is basically an augmented trade - exactly what you would expect to encounter out there.

 

Clearly disagreeing with anyone anywhere makes me a bad person and arrogant to boot. Look up the definition - I think bagging someone for suggesting taking experienced hands and a well found boat fits the description pretty well...

 

Oh and I would have droped the dodger as well - less uncontrolled windage (LOL)

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Geez Squid - picky picky - a bit of a piss take (in my view).

 

 

Absolutely correct, i was trying to indicate such with the little devil thingy - maybe need a lesson on appropriate use of little face thingies.

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Hope MOT or whoever polices departures isnt watching.

 

Jesus Bloody Christ. Don't you know anything???? The ocean is full of tossers who don't know the first thing about bluewater sailing. Maybe you should stay at home until you do some more research and gain some more experience.

Any fool knows it's YNZ & Customs who police departures. God, it's twats like you who make it hard for the rest of us.

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Please AC,

 

Quote “ you Q’s MIGHT be valid”

 

Give me and some of the others who read this site credit for a little intelligence at least, these questions need to be asked, and I am sure have been, if Insurance is involved.

 

Where in my post did I discredit your intelligence? I acknoweldged your questions as valid.

 

Unlike in your stinging response to smithy which really lowers the tone:

 

Yup. What Grinna said. :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

How very erudite of you Smithy, an IQ related offering I am sure.

 

Your posts keeps banging on repeating the same questions and reminding us of your gazillion seamiles of experience. The reason you're not getting traction is:

 

1. You are parading around your rude attitude and ego as if you own the sea and have the right to answers you are demanding now

 

2. You keep contradicting yourself - one minute you say "Give us answers" then next minute you say "STFU".

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Slightly off topic, but I struggle to believe cruisers have more disasters/need more help than racers.

 

Way back when this forum first appeared I was bagged for suggesting the racing fraternity was getting too cavalier in their attitude towards rescue (hey if you don't need rescue at least once you aren't trying hard enough)

 

How about a list of boats in the last few years of CC that have had "issues" we could start with Silver Raider.

 

Consider in XS of 600 cruisers arrive and depart NZ every year, how many do the Fiji Race, is it 10 or 12.

 

Nope, I'd need to see some pretty good numbers before I'd accept that.

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AC

 

You said the Q's might be valid. It was the might I had an issue with.

 

I dont think I ever demanded answers, rather I asked question, and was happy to let it lie there.

 

Dont think I have ever said anything about my experience or not, other than to say I have practiced steering with a drouge and that we always have a lookout. I just asked questions and made suggestions!

 

The one i did tell to STFU was JH, and for his own good. A salient suggestion as time has proven.

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Er which bit is the arrogant bit Grinna?

 

The bit that comes across as being arrogant is the bit I quoted and highlighted and discussed immediately afterward (by saying that the statement infers that only racers are properly prepared and cruisers need to be regulated for their own good).

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The Rum reference was an obviously poor attempt at humor to lighten the Friday afternoon

 

Well, truth be told I picked it as a tongue in cheek comment, but it wasn't immediately obvious and I've raced/sailed with some who literally would have done just as you described.

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One way (without going over the side) would be to run a line from forward - say chainplates (on the side it was turning towards) around rudder then up to a snap block on the opposite transom or slightly further forward (in line with rudder stock) and then to a primary and wind like f*ck.

Agree with the effort to free the rudder but this approach I reckon risks jaming it more, as the force is likely to be forward. Also if the top of the rudder was jambed against the hull, or against a hull fitting, this might also risk fracturing the hull. Keeping the aft line, well aft of the rudder stock reduces this risk a bit, but a big stopper knot (or threaded blocks) on the line, located to get a grip on the trailing edge, is more likely to provide the force on the line in the direction required.

 

All I did was ask some questions hopeing that maybe something may be learned.

If this really was your intention, most likely you sabotaged the attempt by coming across as an obnoxious half-wit. This is not usually the best way to encourage a free and frank discussion with anyone.

 

I would like to see the whole story not just the happy go lucky version that we have to date.

I doubt many serious-minded people are likely to contribute to this forum in that way when they see how obnoxious a few of the armchair critics are willing to be.

 

I know some people entertain themselves by being offensive, but it really limits the likely contributions on this subject and many others.

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pwederell displaying your intellect again - onya - added heaps - hows your blue water CV looking?

 

And Grinna are you really that umm challenged - I was dissing an attitude not stating a fact - I think the attitude is still there (do I need your permission to think that?). Pardon me for getting all my experience (such as it is) pushing boats hard 24/7 with all sorts of challenges and all sorts of top yachties to learn off - my bad...

 

I also love the repeated reference to armchair critics etc. so anyone who disagrees and wasn't there isn't allowed a view or to participate in an online discussion - hahaha. Its a freaking internet discussion forum for goodness sake!!!

 

Maybe if they had installed that bow thruster they could have steered her home that way...

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And Grinna are you really that umm challenged - I was dissing an attitude not stating a fact - I think the attitude is still there (do I need your permission to think that?). Pardon me for getting all my experience (such as it is) pushing boats hard 24/7 with all sorts of challenges and all sorts of top yachties to learn off - my bad...

 

Not challenged at all. Youimplied that you thought all cruisers were ill-prepared and in imminent danger of being killed through poor preparation and lack of skill, whereas you suggest that racers are well prepared, experienced and emminently suited to ocean passagemaking.

 

I think that attitude comes across as arrogance and I don't think it accurately reflects reality.

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Grinna the problem is your reading comprehension. I did not imply that at all - what I suggested was there seems to be an attitude emerging that cruising is a bit more laid back therefore not requiring the level of experience and preperation that race boats require. I suggested the reality is that the opposite is required - short handed crews cannot deal with the problems a full on race crew can therefore they need to be more prepared.

 

You need to include all the words written in your comprehension and read what is written not what you think might have been written. And inferences are the property of the reader not the writer. I have alot of respect for many of the cruisers and their ability to handle anything - but zero respect for people that go off half cocked and run into totally foreseeable problems. Not too many NZ race boats have needed rescuing on the way to the islands lately Squid.

 

Gotta go to the gymn now in the mean time please fire away I am sure I will come back to a good flaming... (and how do you get quotes from one contributor accredited to another as seems to be happening here?)

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Not too many NZ race boats have needed rescuing on the way to the islands lately Squid.

 

 

That's coz hardly any go these days :lol: :lol:

 

Go back to my query re the CC

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Yup and less will show up when the cost of insurance goes up

 

I have said before I reckon the CC is a disaster waiting to happen - and it won't be the full on racers it will be the next tier down. All we need is a serious Easterly to get some real trouble - ain't nowhere to hide on that coast. Imagine entering Tuts with an inexperienced underdone crew, and a little underpowered boat (say one of those that has an outboard hanging off the back) in a big blow... I am always quite excited when there is just a big swell running in a big boat with a reliable diesel.

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I also love the repeated reference to armchair critics etc. so anyone who disagrees and wasn't there isn't allowed a view or to participate in an online discussion - hahaha. Its a freaking internet discussion forum for goodness sake!!!

 

noone is suggesting you or anyone else are not allowed, or should not participate Rocket. Not sure where you got that from. How obnoxous the armchair critics are, was the (fairly obvious) point, suggest you use some of your own 'intellect' to improve your own 'reading comprehension'.

 

The only person I have heard suggesting someone should not participate is Brucey who reckons the person who was there, and has been willing to provide a lot of information, should stop contributing

 

The irony is the contributors who seem most outspoken about the lack of 'the full story' are those who have done the most to reduce the chance others will bother to contribute anything.

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