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New Zealand cannabis referendum, Yes or No


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On 19/10/2020 at 4:19 PM, armchairadmiral said:

 No vote here . Never touched the stuff. Don't care if you do . Rum in vast quantities though . I wouldn't vote to legalise rum either if it wasn't already legal. You don't unleash things on the public that arent already there legally.Prohibition was an unmitigated disaster but only because they changed the law from something publicly legally acceptable. Pokies being a good example in recent years being unleashed in vast numbers for real damage to the lower socio economic groups. Just leave dope alone to function like now. These things are sometimes more about a how to tax it mission than public good. Contrary to popular belief Govts. arent beind kind....just devious. You know...I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help.BTW I've recently looked at Cannabis Industry (medical) there's not much in it unless you can get an overseas export market going. ATM its about at the same stage as Ostrich farming in the beginning  and look how that ended up.

There is plenty "unleashed" or that should be that have previously not been legal.

Pretty much any genetically engineered item is a case in point.  There is no good scientific reason for banning GE crops and animals, but ban them we have.

And that is the issue - if the decisionmaking is based on morals, gut-feel or hisdtorical prescident, you cn pretty much hguarantee the decision will be wrong in some way.

Alcohol is a problem in NZ and the drafting of the cannbis law reflects this. 

You are limited to a small amount of cannabis in your possession at any one time.  Not so alcohol.

There is a maximum limit to the potency of the cannabis that can be sold.  Not so alcohol.

There are tight limits on where you can consume cannabis.  Not so alcohol.

There are limits to how much you can produce for personal use.  Not so alcohol.

We currently spend around $200m policing and sentencing cannabis-related crime (2017 est).  We currently forgo about the same amount in GST on cannabis sales - even worse, that cash is effectively handed to criminals.

So $400m a year combined could be redirected into the government funding of health, justice, education, social services etc.  It could even reduce income tax rates.  

Or, we can keep arresting and charging people and making 10% of the population at risk of a criminal record, and keep handing $200m to gangs and the like.

 

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I do...

No vote here . Never touched the stuff. Don't care if you do . Rum in vast quantities though . I wouldn't vote to legalise rum either if it wasn't already legal. You don't unleash things on the public

If someone has a problem with drugs ( or alcohol or gambling......) they belong in the health system  ot jail.

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We don't seem to be arresting recreational users anymore. Surprised about 1965 BP.Suppose Wiki is authentic  and maybe it wasn't so much illegal as below the radar. My Dad told me those were innocent times,or perhaps naive. Recovering from WWII. 6 o'clock swill was probably a bigger threat back then ? Those numbers don't reflect the current estimates on  local legal cannabis . Theres only about 200000 users from what I'm informed.

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21 minutes ago, armchairadmiral said:

Those numbers don't reflect the current estimates on  local legal cannabis . Theres only about 200000 users from what I'm informed.

  • 12% of New Zealanders used cannabis in the past 12 months (Health Survey)
  • By the age of 21, 80% of New Zealanders have tried cannabis at least once. And 10% developed a pattern of heavy use (Dunedin and Christchurch Longitudinal Studies).

https://www.drugfoundation.org.nz/info/drug-index/cannabis/

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2 hours ago, armchairadmiral said:

Yes...sorry about that but I meant $$$$$ numbers referring to estimated market,turnover and profit, GST and tax.Like all estimates they are just guess's

Indeed.  The biggest business lie ever is "I've got the sales budget for next year..."

Although the consumption numbers are reasonably well known (grams per user per year) and street price is standard drug enforcement policy data.  A retail price set at, say, 75% of street values, would give you a good starting point for a best guess figure.

Thats my guess, and I would imagine that the numbers have been well worked through by the relevant wonks.

 

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i think they over-reached by wanting to jump straight to legalisation

most voters would/will support decriminalisation

(which will quite possibly be what we get as this was a non-binding referendum)

the dodgy non-sequitur slogans certainly didn't help 

"80% of kiwis have tried dope at least once in their life" - so let's make it legal?

80% of kiwis have probably slapped someone at least once in their life - and that isn't any reason to legalise assault

100% of drivers have sped in their cars at some stage, yet speed limits keep dropping

even the victimless crime of driving in a bus-lane when the buses aren't running now gets slapped with a $150 social-engineering fine

it was never explained why harm minimisation with dope is supposed to be the opposite of everything else

same with the faulty circular reasoning about raising tax from legal sales, hard to see that covering the life-long cost of dealing with baked teen brains

and with "taking business off the gangs", why wouldn't legalisation allow tinny houses on every corner? we already know they'll ignore the laws   

 

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40 minutes ago, erice said:

i think they over-reached by wanting to jump straight to legalisation

most voters would/will support decriminalisation

(which will quite possibly be what we get as this was a non-binding referendum)

the dodgy non-sequitur slogans certainly didn't help 

"80% of kiwis have tried dope at least once in their life" - so let's make it legal?

80% of kiwis have probably slapped someone at least once in their life - and that isn't any reason to legalise assault

100% of drivers have sped in their cars at some stage, yet speed limits keep dropping

even the victimless crime of driving in a bus-lane when the buses aren't running now gets slapped with a $150 social-engineering fine

it was never explained why harm minimisation with dope is supposed to be the opposite of everything else

same with the faulty circular reasoning about raising tax from legal sales, hard to see that covering the life-long cost of dealing with baked teen brains

and with "taking business off the gangs", why wouldn't legalisation allow tinny houses on every corner? we already know they'll ignore the laws   

 

Hi Eric - I suggest you read the draft legislation.  There are strict controls envisaged for retail so I don't anticipate a sudden increase of tinny houses anywhere.  Your suggestion is the same "slippery slope" argument that is used against the euthanasia bill ie there will be death patrols pulling old people off the street and offing them like they are stray cats.

Like most things, if you require each single point to be a self-supporting justification for legislation you can easily end up not legislating for anything.  As a package, the points given (and many more) aim in one overall direction as they support each other.

Lets see what the population has said eh - not long to wait now.

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