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Viking Vee-Drive for Cavalier 32


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1 hour ago, aardvarkash10 said:

Who is this Bill Falconer of which everyone speaks?

Big Bill "spreader of grease" Falconer is a Yanmar agent/service guy who mainly works around Westhaven. Did the new install on my boat and many others. Has/had a half share in the Stewart 34 Princess

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I know a bloke on a cav who switched the engine to a yanmar and couldnt find a v drive to suit so got two big toothed alloy cogs made up and found a toothed belt to suit,looks like a harley davidson belt drive system.Works great dont think he has replaced the belt in years.

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17 hours ago, wild violet said:

I know a bloke on a cav who switched the engine to a yanmar and couldnt find a v drive to suit so got two big toothed alloy cogs made up and found a toothed belt to suit,looks like a harley davidson belt drive system.Works great dont think he has replaced the belt in years.

Hi Wild Violet

This is a really exciting idea and it's great to hear someone has actually done it. I'll go back to Moon Engines and ask the  if they could build something like that. One advantage of a motorbike belt system is that the lubrication requirements may be much simpler and the whole thing can be maintained by me from time to time. Do you know how I could contact the "bloke on a cav"?

Martin 

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Hi Everyone

A couple of you aqsked for photos of the problem. Here's two phiotos showing the corroded / broken threaded bindings on the v-drive case. You can see that the unit is generally corroded. Sad situation that it was still working fine inside despite the issues on the outside.

In another update, the guys at Moon Engines advised replacement. But I'm gonna chat to them again about a simpler cog and belt system and ge their reaction.

I have really appreciated everyone's comments and advice. I will let you know how things develop.
Happy sailing.

Martin

20210217_093130.jpg

Vee drive Petiti coats.jpg

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It's impressive that after 47 years or so the working parts are likely still good and it's only corrosion that's getting the better of it...I use a small Foundry  for one-offs at reasonable prices in my engineering work . A possibility is to replace the casing half (or halves) and save on doing any other mods/retrofitting. Perhaps send me a pm if that interests you.

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We use timing belts on some of our electric drive systems. The difference is the shafts must be completely parallel so it would be a = drive not a V drive. Not suitable to replace most V drives which have an angle between the shafts like the name suggests. You'd also need thrust bearings and a frame to hold and tension the belt so it's not a trivial thing to build.

this sounds like another good opportunity to go electric ;)

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On 28/03/2021 at 2:09 PM, Martin Wright said:

Hi Everyone

A couple of you aqsked for photos of the problem. Here's two phiotos showing the corroded / broken threaded bindings on the v-drive case. You can see that the unit is generally corroded. Sad situation that it was still working fine inside despite the issues on the outside.

In another update, the guys at Moon Engines advised replacement. But I'm gonna chat to them again about a simpler cog and belt system and ge their reaction.

I have really appreciated everyone's comments and advice. I will let you know how things develop.
Happy sailing.

Martin

20210217_093130.jpg

Vee drive Petiti coats.jpg

Wow, looks like you got your money's worth out of that ;-)

You could possibly utilise a python drive / thrust bearing with CV joint in the set up. From my investigations at the time, they cost as much or more than a new gearbox though (noted I don't know what a V drive box costs), but I did exchange a new down angle GB for another one with a different ratio with Moon Engines. If you go with a belt drive and thrust bearing would you still need a regular GB off the engine?

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41 minutes ago, Fish said:

Wow, looks like you got your money's worth out of that ;-)

You could possibly utilise a python drive / thrust bearing with CV joint in the set up. From my investigations at the time, they cost as much or more than a new gearbox though (noted I don't know what a V drive box costs), but I did exchange a new down angle GB for another one with a different ratio with Moon Engines. If you go with a belt drive and thrust bearing would you still need a regular GB off the engine?

The Python drive only helps for alignment issues.

To go belt drive a new gearbox is required with a top lay shaft with bearings at each end. The propshaft will need to terminate in a bearing that can accommodate both thrust and sideways loadings

Gear boxes are not designed to take the sideways loadings present in this type of installation

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On 30/03/2021 at 8:14 AM, Fish said:

You could possibly utilise a python drive / thrust bearing with CV joint in the set up. F

I wasn't ware of the Python Drive so thanks for that. The boat was using universal joints and a "spider joint" to account for alignment issues. Thatn worked okay.

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On 29/03/2021 at 10:28 PM, syohana said:

We use timing belts on some of our electric drive systems. The difference is the shafts must be completely parallel so it would be a = drive not a V drive. Not suitable to replace most V drives which have an angle between the shafts like the name suggests. You'd also need thrust bearings and a frame to hold and tension the belt so it's not a trivial thing to build.

Awesome, Syohana! You and Wild Violet are thinking along the same lines. I will put the to Moon Engines. Do you know of a workshop that can make this sort of stuff?

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38 minutes ago, Martin Wright said:

I wasn't ware of the Python Drive so thanks for that. The boat was using universal joints and a "spider joint" to account for alignment issues. Thatn worked okay.

If you have only minor mis-alignment and everything is basically straight, you can use a CentaFlex coupling. Far cheaper than a python drive type arrangement. We put one on, very good at removing vibration and is more forgiving to engine misalignment.

The NZ supplier isn't coming up in google searches straight away. If you are interested I can find it, and the tech spec sheets for deflection and size / forces etc.

 

centa_kupplung_cf_m_127_700x700.webp

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I just spoke to "Jim S" who offered his brother's foundry service, and Jim himself runs a tooling workshop. We had a great conversation about making new moulded casings and then reassembling the whole unit. It's an attractive idea because I would get something that fits into the current space and wouldn't need to reshape the interior. Big should out to him. I'm still in conversations with Moon Engines and with Argo in Ozz. Slow progress. Stay tuned.

 

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1 hour ago, Martin Wright said:

Awesome, Syohana! You and Wild Violet are thinking along the same lines. I will put the to Moon Engines. Do you know of a workshop that can make this sort of stuff?

If you had a workshop do the work for you as a one off then you may need to win the lottery first on the labour time alone, but it might be possible to make the frame yourself if you have plenty of spare time. Lightning Bolt in Auckland are very good for making up custom shafts and flanges, they might even do the whole job.

The simplest approach for a one-off is using U section alloy or steel frame bolted together like the Electric Yacht system we are currently selling on our website. the photos here should give you the idea:

https://electricboat.co.nz/index.php/product/electric-yacht-5kw-10hp-equivalent-shaft-drive-motor/

PS why not just buy this system and dump the whole diesel? This motor is so compact it will fit without a V drive.

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On 28/03/2021 at 1:45 PM, Martin Wright said:

Hi Wild Violet

This is a really exciting idea and it's great to hear someone has actually done it. I'll go back to Moon Engines and ask the  if they could build something like that. One advantage of a motorbike belt system is that the lubrication requirements may be much simpler and the whole thing can be maintained by me from time to time. Do you know how I could contact the "bloke on a cav"?

Martin 

Hi Martin,

Bloke with the drive unit is Phil Zwiess lives on board at Picton,Boat is called Cavall.Has circumnavigated in her best set up cav ive ever seen

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