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Camp Stoves in Race Yachts


Tim C

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I'm involved in some YNZ discussions on safety issues, including using self contained camping type stoves for 'cooking' during races. There are safety concerns with the cylinders inside the boats, and their potential for leaking and/or rusting. Having said that, a cruising boat with a 9 kg bottle and a leaking stove/gas line/caliphont/ fridge is also a hazard.

I'm keen to have some feedback on you opinions and experience please...

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Is there a Cat No in discussion. Because as i understand it and have my boat set up for, the 9Kg LPG tank has to have an electric valve and you have to be able to turn the tank of from the galley. Of which I have both a manual switch and the Gas detector also automaticaly switches off the tanks if it detects fumes.

I have never heard of the small screw in gas cans leaking and i doubt many would be in a boat long enough to worry about rust leaks.

One concern i have though, is too many rules being made. We darn near have to have a rule about blowing ones nose onboard. Surely ones have to take some responsibility for their own safety. If they have a rusty can, then they need to replace it. They are idiots if they don't and if it fails and they blow themselves up, then we have one less idiot. Why on earth do we have to keep having rules made up that just make it hard and expensive for all the normal people out there. We end up having Idiots living longer and breeding creating more idiots at a cost to the normal people.

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Smokey Joe only has room on board for a very small- unspindled cooker.

 

It fits one of the aerosol sized butane single burners in a wee spot down stairs that works a treat- however would never try to use it while underway- recipe for disaster.

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dont people just use these little cookers as a rule bender in races? they dont infact use them while racing?

 

bang a gas detector in regardless of built in stove or portable cooker. problem solved

?

 

or keep em in a locker out back thats vented. bring out for use only?

do a similar thing at work with flammable liquids. its a pain in the arse but everthing is in the storage unit out back unless being used.

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I have heard of an inspector who actually commended an owner for having a 9kg bottle securely but accessibly stored in the galley as it can be manually turned off after every use. Much better than saying, (when it is stored outside,) that I will go out to the locker "as soon as it stops raining" to turn it off.

Tim, thanks for putting these questions out here, It is the first time that I have ever seen a discussion being made available to the people most likely to be affected. Keep it up.

Please please work on actual problems that have happened, rather than hypothetical ones that are more the product of fertile imaginations.

Life is dangerous! you and I will never survive it!

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Please please work on actual problems that have happened, rather than hypothetical ones that are more the product of fertile imaginations.

 

Guess this goes for the petrol engines discussion too.

 

I think you'l find that in the case of the camp cookers aboard a lot of racing yachts, they are put there as cat 3 requires one. Most never get used.

You'd be better off not requiring a cooker if there is a 'percieved' danger.

 

I have one. Have no intention of ever using it during a race. Thermos and cold food is enough for me.

 

As the topics raised are for discussion, can we ask what the reasons for the discussion are? Have there been changes overseas that YNZ is following? Has some Health and safety nutter joined a committee and tried to make sailing 100% safe?

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Tim, thanks for putting these questions out here, It is the first time that I have ever seen a discussion being made available to the people most likely to be affected. Keep it up.

 

Seconded :thumbup:

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Tim, thanks for putting these questions out here, It is the first time that I have ever seen a discussion being made available to the people most likely to be affected. Keep it up.

 

 

 

Hear hear, well done.

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I'll 3rd the above comments, good post Tim. Nice to be asked actually, very nice.

 

My 2 comments -

Solo round the world racers who are often totally knackered and in shite weather use camp stoves, none have blown up. A gazillion young dudes and dudeess's will go away this Xmas and be using camp stoves, usually in a totally pissed/stoned state. It's unlikely any will blow up, comment based on history. Many commercial vessels only have camp stoves none I know of have blown up or been knocked back by MSA/SSM requirements.

 

My gas bottle is in a locker right on the transom which I have to get too over/around tillers, motor, motor well and sometimes trashing mainsheet. While I'm turning it on and off I'm very prone to the weather and basically sitting on the transom. Position wise the camp stove users are in a lot safer place than I.

 

I would have zero issue using and given the choice would probably use a camp stove over a separate gas bottle.

 

Life is dangerous! you and I will never survive it!
:thumbup: Oh yeah.....
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My 2c - we use the camp stove option but it's simply to be able to tick the box as we carry nothing to heat and nothing to heat with. For Cat 3, how about considering an option of not having gas? If you do, then sure, there are a few criteria.

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16.08 Cooking stove, securely installed against

capsize with safe and accessible fuel shut

off control, capable of being safely operated

in a seaway. Any liquid or inflammable fuels

must be carried in approved containers. X X X

 

16.09 Gas appliances. Installation shall comply

with NZ Standard 5428:2006. See SR

Appendix 5. X X X X X

 

This notice of minimum size 75mm x 150mm

shall be visible adjacent to the stove.

“ TURN OFF GAS AT BOTTLE” X X X X X

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My 2c - we use the camp stove option but it's simply to be able to tick the box as we carry nothing to heat and nothing to heat with. For Cat 3, how about considering an option of not having gas? If you do, then sure, there are a few criteria.

 

Less rules please, not more.

Keep compliance costs for Cat 3 as low as possible, please.

 

same sentiment for the discussion about petrol motors.

 

i think the change to 2 years for a certificate is a crock and I think it has affected fleet numbers for the Coastal.

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Tim,

I had one of those stoves on Supergroove. It met the regs and was actually really good. Generally we only ever used it cruising, or to put a kettle on for the pot noodles when it was wet and calm and cold. We always took a fewthermos with us for the Coastal, SSANZ etc

 

I have no problem with them for Cat 3 which are all day races anyway. For Cat 2 I still reckon they are ok but I'd want to see a method of fixing the pot on under motion - particularly heeling and pounding.

 

I think the gas in those is so little your risk is minimal.

 

Now out comes the soap box...

I reckon the seepage and fumes from outboards taken off the transom and stored below is worse, let alone their method of fixing them in case of knockdown

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I reckon the seepage and fumes from outboards taken off the transom and stored below is worse, let alone their method of fixing them in case of knockdown

Hell yes. Any hot motor downstairs is yucky.

 

Knot all fixings are dodgy though, our would easily survive a roll over and assuming we weren't upside down too long the OB would still be a runner, thinking water ingest to the motor workings. We would also be pretty good with the fuel tank as it's tied into in a pretty good sealed locker (that has drains down low so up high if inverted). We may lose a little thru the air vent but I'm pretty confident we'd be in no worse shape than most inboards.

 

So I wonder what YNZ would think if they knew we have used 10 of those small tea candles to boil the jug? Ran out of gas... bugger. The candles worked bloody well though, boiled the puppy in about 10mins, then a big pot of beans and then a few snapper fillets. Now we keep a dozen or 2 aboard all the time.

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How many yachts have been sunk by diesel inboards letting the ocean in.

It will be multiple times more than sunk by outboard use.

Therefore by risk analysis, inboard engines should be banned. :)

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So I wonder what YNZ would think if they knew we have used 10 of those small tea candles to boil the jug? Ran out of gas... bugger. The candles worked bloody well though, boiled the puppy in about 10mins, then a big pot of beans and then a few snapper fillets. Now we keep a dozen or 2 aboard all the time.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Nobody panic! Lots of sense has prevailed and a sensible outcome for all has been the result, especially for Cat 3 races. As soon as the rule becomes official I'll post a link.

I've raised many of the concerns I saw during my pre Coastal Classic inspections, and I think most of you will be happy. This looks like including being able to get rid of that large rusty heavy tool in the bilge that none of us would ever use...

My point of the post was to be able to show a general feeling if need be. Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm on your side!

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