Marine Instruments

[Guest]

I was chatting to a dude yesterday who know lectronics rather well (he builds his own) and he suggested a fair amount, possibly as much as 75%, of equipment like marine instruments get problems due to related gear rather than the gear itself. Things like stuff being mounted in a place knot really the best for it but best for the crew to use it, the massive amount of powered equipment now on boats causing electrical issues like spikes or loses, sometimes crap wiring sizes and wiring in general and other things along those lines.

 

Being in the marine game as I am and seeing many anchoring systems mismatched i.e. 'I want that anchor as it fits in my locker', as oppose to one that actually fits it's job requirements best and other things like that. Also the number of time we hear 'The rope/chain on the winch is crap so it doesn't go, fix it' yet 75% (99.9% if we supplied it) of those have bugger all to do with the rope/chain and it's a winch or often install related issue, I think the dude is probably quite right.

 

There are a awful lot of boaters who get and set up gear so it works for them with little thought as to what's best for the gear.

 

Maybe, speculating here, many issues people have had over the years could be more associated gear related than the gear itself?

 

So part of my instrument, and all the other new gear going on, programme is to make sure each bit is placed and set-up so it's gear friendly. By that I mean we have a full rewire (yes both of them ) coming on just to make sure the new instruments get the best chance of working best and living the longest.

[Chewing Gum 17]

WT and Chewinggum, I think you're hitting the nail on the head. The old Autohelm/Raymarine stuff was great.... it's the newer stuff that I've bought in the last 5-10 yrs that has been a problem, ever since the relentless takeovers and mergers of the original companies into one bigger company. It's a familiar story of quality falling post-takeover and not restricted to marine instruments but examples are littered all over the place in everyday life.

 

AC - that is interesting. One day our instruments must fail. What sort of issues have you had with Raymarine ?

You have to wonder if there isn't planned obsolescence, lots of stuff doesn't seem to last the same.

Simrad gear seems to have a pretty good reputation ?

We have a Lowrance 7in chartplotter on the helm station and in the weather which has been very good - about 5 years old now.

[Fogg 427]

CG. Back in the early 80s and 90s my old Autohelm systems kept going year in year out. And we had a pretty rudimentary 12v system. One boat was just a single batter for everything (engine start + house) and another boat had two (one engine + one house battery). But there was no other fancy systems to keep the voltage stable, I'm sure it spiked horribly everytime I started the engine but none of my instruments (Autohelm or Seafarer) threw a fit.

 

So I don't buy today's argument that the root cause is often 'blips' in the 12v supply - things were much worse years ago but today's units seem to have become worse not better at dealing with a typical marine leisure environment.

 

Problems. I have a Autohelm/Raytheon/Raymarine (whatever you want to call it) ST6000+ wheelpilot. The head unit blows it's circuit board about once every 2 years and the L&B guys now know their own way to AC's berth to remove/repair/replace it. They have tested my 12v systems and can't find any fault. The downside is that I'm now on my 3rd replacemetn unit in 7 yrs and if/when this one blows, they tell me there are no more left in the country to replace it with (my last replacement was taken from the demo in the showroom). So next time I'm up for a complete replacement of the whole system. Hence I'm already thinking ahead to what I'll do...

[Chewing Gum 17]

Thanks AC

We have a Raymarine autopilot also

I am bit vague on model / year but it has done a lot of work - no probs touch wood

South Island and back,

Three Kings and back,

Houhora and back x2 ,

Numerous Barrier and BOI trips

(and we hardly ever hand steer)

It is probably about 5 years old and one the first of the gyro assisted pilots and is driving a linear drive on a quadrant. We replaced an earlier version (ST4000 I think) because although it was working it was useless down wind.

The new one steers just great and uses a lot less power and there is lot less wear and noise from the linear drive because it doesn't have to work so hard.

[Fogg 427]

I transformed the course-keeping abilities of mine by installing the rudder position feedback sensor. Previously it would wander all over the place no matter what I did with the dozens of different calibration settings - now it steers better than me (not hard though).

[tuffyluffy 76]

AC, if Lustys dont have units try ebay. I bought a new Raymarine autopilot head unit from the US via ebay and it all worked out a treat, and i saved a small fortune. It took about 5 days to arrive and included a followup phone call from the supplier to ensure i was happy with everything.

 

Also try http://www.100marine.co.nz. Ive used them for some bits and they've been great to deal with. They stock Raymarine gear

[Guest]

As much as I've sussed I haven't managed to find Raymarine cheaper anywhere than in NZ. All the prices are basically the same give or take only a small amount for exchange rate variations. By the time you add freight, Customs (which will happen as it will be over 4 hundy), GST and etc, NZ is the cheapest place I can find to get Raymarine.

 

Knot that different with one or 2 other brands also but there are some where there is big gaps.

[wheels 543]

So how do these compare?? Not sure just what models you are looking at sorry. Certainly pricing seems to vary wildly from supplier to supplier.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 4cf4f0b8a6

 

This may not have the mast heas unit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 4a91452f8e

 

But this one does

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 5ae186400d

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 588f02e5d3

[Guest]

So how do these compare?? Not sure just what models you are looking at sorry. Certainly pricing seems to vary wildly from supplier to supplier.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 4cf4f0b8a6 knot 100% sure on the 70 series but I'm thinking no gain there

This may not have the mast heas unit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 4a91452f8e no cheaper

 

But this one does

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 5ae186400d no cheaper

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Raymarin ... 588f02e5d3 no cheaper

 

Replies based on US$0.77 and adding GST along with a semi educated guess of freight and customs clearance costs. The NZ$ needs to drop a fair way yet for shopping there to become more attractive. I see zero gain buying those over buying the same in NZ, if anything you could easily end up paying more.

 

Just had a quick suss of what's on-line in NZ. Hell do some of the prices vary a lot.

[Kiteroa 8]

Don't expect a lot of love from the ebay dealer if you have an issue though. I looked for my system on ebay and it was cheaper, but I'm still going to Lustys.

 

for a couple of hundie and a sound warranty, why wouldn't you deal with the local guy?

 

You'd have to be as tight as a ducks ass not to.

[Fogg 427]

Back when I was buying my original Navman and Raymarine kit 7 yrs ago I could get it for about 30% cheaper landed in NZ by ordering from the UK. But the support issue did concern me hence I bought it locally which was a smart move given the trouble I've had - Burnsco dealt swiftly with the Navman problems and L&B with the multiple Raymarine problems. So yes the local service was very good and worth paying the extra to offset the cr@p reliability of the kit. Consider it a kind of insurance premium.

[wheels 543]

You'd have to be as tight as a ducks ass not to.

WT, why is it that you do not own the latest Ferrari or Lambo?? I doubt it is because you are tighter than a ducks ass, but more likely, can't afford one. The reason I don't have the Autopilot I want is because I don't have $6K to spend on one. Actually I don't have $2K to spend on one either, but it is far more reachable than $6K. So hence the consideration.

[Kiteroa 8]

You'd have to be as tight as a ducks ass not to.

WT, why is it that you do not own the latest Ferrari or Lambo?? I doubt it is because you are tighter than a ducks ass, but more likely, can't afford one. The reason I don't have the Autopilot I want is because I don't have $6K to spend on one. Actually I don't have $2K to spend on one either, but it is far more reachable than $6K. So hence the consideration.

 

 

Sorry, that wasn't a personal attack.......

 

A top end sport car is a question of many tens of thousands of dollars difference to the car I have now, and I don't need a sport car, I have a sport boat. Where my instruments are are a question of a couple of hundred dollars difference. So I choose to support the local guy who will give me an added value warranty and fast personal service.

 

 

Besides, the Lustys lady gave me half an hour of her time at boat show and they helped me out with technical advice. I was going to spend more, but they gave me other smarter options for my system, so in the end I spent less than if I had gone in uneducated and bought from the net.

[wheels 543]

I didn't take it as a personal attack, as more me trying to show a point I see often and probably make myself at times. That it is easy to make an assumption that because I can afford something, therefore everyone can. Although I am toward the far end of the food trough when it comes to affording anything. Absolutely when the differences are only a few hundred, you would be foolish to buy something from overseas and wave all the warranty and service and so on. But there are sometimes more to be saved than just a hundred or so and the risk becomes worth considering. And it isn't because we are all tight, but it can be the difference between actually having something and not having something.

We do see tight though. But mostly in NZ itself. And that is usually the ones that come into the shop and expect to pay the same for the Ferrari as they would for the "great wall" model around the corner. We get them all the time with one just the other day wanting top quality chain from us and then saying, "but you will have to match Burnsco's chain price if you want the sale".

[Steve Pope 243]

Re the warranty refusal from local agents for gear bought online, how do overseas sailors get on with name brand equipment that they have installed on their boat that breaks down within the warranty period, do they get service from importers who won't do online imported stuff, or do they have to pack it up and send it back to wherever they bought it from.

[wheels 543]

I imagine that is dependant of the Warranty clauses. It maybe a return to manufacturer warranty, in which it does not matter where you bought, or sometimes you can return to your retailer your purchased it from and they will take care of it from there. An Audio product I used to sell was a case of retunr to the NZ importer. I would say to the client, courier to such and such, don't want to see it. They will get it sorted and straight back to you. Other items had to come back to me and I would then sort it from there.

[Guest]

Re the warranty refusal from local agents for gear bought online, how do overseas sailors get on with name brand equipment that they have installed on their boat that breaks down within the warranty period, do they get service from importers who won't do online imported stuff, or do they have to pack it up and send it back to wherever they bought it from.

From what I understand most will service offshore boats gear as a 'service' with a splash of reciprocal i.e. some dude in Timbucktoo will also service NZ boats gear if needed.

 

But most aren't happy with working on the gear of someone who thought they were 'rip off artists' and purchased online/offshore. Basically one could say 'if you though we were rip off arseholes why should we now help you out when you have a problem?".

 

Also a close look at most warrentees and you'll probably find they do say they are 'return to base' i.e return to where you purchased it.

 

I have purchased things off shore but very rarely anything that was available here. Did one last week and it was bloody good on price. But then forgot the NZ$454 I paid for it suddenly cost around $180 more than that for the freight and then another $150 odd. Yeap, dumbarse forgot GST and Customs as well but them did manage to wiggle off another $60 in duty. So worst case my $454 item could have cost $844 by the time it got to my hands. But that's OK as it is a damn cool machine.

[Fogg 427]

I'm surprised we haven't heard more in the general media about the formal policy on companies supporting warranties locally in NZ on products bought overseas. I'm not talking about marine equipment specifically, but general stuff.

 

As an example, Canon makes a point that all their camera warranties are "worldwide". This meant that I was happy to buy various Canon cameras, lenses and accessories in a variety of locations including Dubai, India and HK. And I know that the local NZ Canon service centre (conveniently next to the Northcote Rd offramp) will support any issues either within the warranty period or outside it, on normal terms.

 

The reason for buying kit overseas and ending up with it back in NZ was a combination of convenience (where I was at the time) and sometimes small price advantage. But Canon ensures the price of their kit is reasonably consistent around the world which reduces customer motive for high volumes of arbitrage purchases.

 

However, here in "rip-off" NZ plenty of other goodies are not so fairly priced resulting in large volumes of offshore purchases - whether that is due to the flexible pricing policy of the manufacturers allowing it or decisions of local retailers to bump up margins, I don't know.

 

But as the level of online/offshore purchasing increases, I'm sure the question of local product support will become more prominent.

[Guest]

The difference with outfits like Canon for example is they have a Canon operation in most countries. The Canon office/repair centre in Takapuna is owned by Canon worldwide i.e Canon NZ is Canon. Just like Sony a few mts down the road.

 

Taking Raymarine for example. L&B are only agents for Raymarine, knot part of or owned by Raymarine themselves. Bar CruzPro all the instrument sellers here in NZ are only agents.

 

Quite a bit of difference there.

[Fogg 427]

Yeah but just cos they are agents doesn't mean they shouldn't aim to provide support.

 

If someone buys Raymarine overseas (for whatever reason) then presumably Raymarine has made an acceptable profit whether it was bought in NZ or Uzbekistan. And if they bring the unit back to NZ and it goes wrong within warranty period then the local agent should support the product and claim whatever cost from Raymarine - exactly the same would happen if it was in a country where Raymarine 'real' was located - it's just a transfer of location of the repair cost.

 

And the local NZ servicing agent should be as keen as hell to service the overseas product even if it wasn't bought from them - because it gives them a chance to build a customer relationship that they didn't previously have (due to their prices) - and who knows what new business might lead from this new customer relationship. And remember that customers who have just had faulty goods repaired/replaced are known to be very happy bunnies with strong new feelings of loyalty to whomever provided that service.

 

So if NZ businesses insist on charging more for the same item that customers can get cheaper overseas, then they should (1) prepare to lose sales and (2) make arrangements with the manufacturers to support these offshore items locally and consider it a golden opportunity to reacquire lost customers.

 

I think any other response, such as refusing to service products bought outside NZ, is short-sighted and a downward spiral.