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collisions on the harbour while racing


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A great read guys everyone playing to type so I better do the same.

 

So a cat barges at the start line hoping his fellow competitors are muppets and they will give him a gap. Attacks the buoy at the pin then cleans out the club boat who is sitting outside the line. Great effort so far. Then he gets upset cos the club won't accept liability and fix his boat (or give him a hug)?

 

Umm don't rush to start at a lot of the regattas where the pin is a freaking great boat!

 

Put it down to experience, learn some seamanship and stop freakin hitting things with your boat - you will never win at that game. I am sure the Squaddie RIBs will be staying a bit further away from the multi start line from now knowing there is maniacs on the handlebars out there. And I don't buy the I was going fast and couldn't avoid it thing - Voda seems to be able to sail a 60 foot wide thing off the same start line in the same bit of water without cleaning everyone on the harbour out (touch wood). The real take away is when starting on the ditch on a reach DON'T BARGE!!! And if you get caught out too high do a circle early and have another crack. Hoping a gap will open is not that clever.

 

And seriously guys does anyone ever consider the colregs when racing - you race the fleet and avoid the random obstacles around the track whether or not they are flying flags or shapes or their girlfriends underwear. If you think they are in the wrong you politely explain that to them as you clear them. To do otherwise is to damage your boat, wreck your race and spoil your whole day.

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Best summation I have seen so far

 

Totally agree. :thumbup:

Also agree with the ealier comments of talking, people want to play email ping-pong with me i just ignore them.

 

Read all the rules and i would say a good lawyer and Rocket's summary would win. e.g. "risk & when yachts have to keep out of the way of power boats".

 

Or do we not want a pin-end boat in racing, this resulting in late nights from multiple recalls or cheats.

just my 2cents worth :angel:

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So, let me get this straight, regardless of racing or not and purpose for the presence of the power boat, you guys are saying that a drifting (but not disabled) power boat has no obligation to stay out of the way of any other vessel (sailing or otherwise) on the harbour? That means that essentially a drifting power boat has no more responsibilities than a drifting log or piece of debris.

 

That doesn't sound correct to me.

 

If I'm the skipper of a power boat which is drift fishing for instance, then I don't have to keep a lookout or be prepared to avoid a collision? Don't think I'd be too comfortable operating that way at all (rightly or wrongly). As skipper of a drifting power boat my head would be on a swivel the whole time.

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No Grinna I am saying that if you want to race and win you don't go around aiming at stationery obkects and hope they will get out of your way. I have always found I go a lot faster without a 6 m RIB attached to my bow(s).

 

And frankly driftfisherman can reasonably assume that the guy on the handlebars of the yacht/launch approaching will avoid him irrespective of the colregs. Wouldn't get much fishing in otherwise...

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So, let me get this straight, regardless of racing or not and purpose for the presence of the power boat, you guys are saying that a drifting (but not disabled) power boat has no obligation to stay out of the way of any other vessel (sailing or otherwise) on the harbour? That means that essentially a drifting power boat has no more responsibilities than a drifting log or piece of debris.

 

Nup, that is not what I am agreeing with. I think that when your are racing, you should not put yourself in a position where you will hit a yacht club vessel assisting with the race, whether technically they have or have not been included in the sailing instructions. If you do accidentally put yourself in that position then I would be ringing the yacht club to apologise for my error. These guys are generally all volunteers and are doing me a favour enabling me to race at my own risk.

 

Other randoms that I came across while racing I would treat like I do any other boat when not racing i.e assume the worst and take plenty of advance action to avoid a collision, probably along with dishing out some helpful advise. If a collision was to happen I would leave it to my insurance company to sort out the liability because that's what I pay them for.

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if you want to race and win you don't go around aiming at stationery obkects and hope they will get out of your way. I have always found I go a lot faster without a 6 m RIB attached to my bow(s)

 

Yep, agree ... but I don't think the intention was to hit anything.

 

And frankly driftfisherman can reasonably assume that the guy on the handlebars of the yacht/launch approaching will avoid him irrepsctive of the colregs.

 

I agree that drift fishermen do assume that everyone else will go around them. I'm not sure that is actually a reasonable assumption.

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And seriously guys does anyone ever consider the colregs when racing -

99.9% wouldn't but your insurance company, the courts and the coroner sure would. That's all they would consider.

 

There are 2 scenarios being discussed here. One is the Yachtie point of view based on what yachties do and the other view point is in regards to the actual Laws.

 

I think where you aim your boat all comes back to what that wise Oracle once said 'You must ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well do you, punk?'

 

Still surprised so many are so willing to flout the rules and actively suggest it's perfectly fine. That doesn't bode at all well.

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Still surprised so many are so willing to flout the rules and actively suggest it's perfectly fine. That doesn't bode at all well.

 

KM, there has been no suggestion of flouting rules on my behalf. In fact I am suggesting that as yachties racing we out to be doing more than the minimum that the col regs require. We have more responsibility because we are (supposedly) better educated.

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yep KM that is why you don't go around hitting stationary objects.

 

As a fisherman (from time to time) am well aware of the time it takes to wind in a line, retrieve a berley bag, start an engine and get out of the way of something travelling at 15 knots in a seemingly haphazard direction - it ain't going to happen so the yachties would be well advise to treat each boat as an obstruction and avoid it.

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Don't stress F, I'm knot aiming that comment at anyone specific, certainly knot at Brucey as he obviously doesn't even know the most basic of ones :twisted:

 

It's just a large number of posters seem to put more weight on whether someone handles their boat in a manner they see as the right way to do it rather than on very long established, well known, and pretty damn simple Rules of the Nautical road.

 

I suppose it does sort of explain why bumper boats with the ensuing bar bitching is becoming far more commonly seen than protest flags and no one seems to either care or be worried about any slippery slope action.

 

This thread will come back and haunt one or too in the future I suspect and it's gonna be a lot of fun to watch ;)

 

yep KM that is why you don't go around hitting stationary objects.

This thread shows very clearly why I always regard all other non-commercial boats on the water as being skippered by someone with the intelligence of a brick and get out of their way regardless of who has what rights.

 

I did bounce off 7 (17 now???) Buoy on Saturday. I didn't push the point as it wasn't underway at the time, it was anchored. Luckily there was no damage to my paintwork :)

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And when I think about it I do treat all other boats out there like floating logs - i.e. I don't expect them to get out of the way - I give myself room and/or a bail out option.

 

Seems people don't really get that 7 tonne + of boat is going to make a mess no matter who was in the wrong. I guess the same people hold their line on the motorway when someone indicates or drifts at them on the basis that "I am right"... A good description of how we should sail in confined waters in the company of others is defensively.

 

I hope you aren't missing my point on the colregs - of course I respect them I just don't think that when you are pushing a race boat at a mark or in close proximity to others they are front of mind. Front of mind is how do I not crash my boat no matter what the other muppet does...

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Lucky I'm not the sensitive type KM.

 

It would be a completely interesting one to get a definitive decision from the powers that be, as I feel some are missinterpreting the regs.

 

I would wager a round, that even if a stationary boat was found to have any culpability at all and i doubt it, that a sail boat that hit it would be held much more culpable.

 

 

22.17 Action by stand-on vessel

(1) If one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other must keep its course

and speed.

(2) As soon as it becomes apparent to the stand-on vessel that the vessel required

to give way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with this Part –

(a) it may take action to avoid collision by its manoeuvre alone; and

(B) if it is a power-driven vessel in a crossing situation, if the

circumstances of the case allow, it must not alter course to port for a

vessel on its own port side.

(3) When, from any cause, the stand-on vessel finds itself so close that collision

cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, it must take

whatever action will best avoid collision.

 

Even if the sail boat was somehow considered the stand on vessel (the only one actually moving!) she has clearly not meet (3).

 

And I would certainly contend that this reg. would far outweigh any other rules pertenance!

 

Fully agree with your brick assesment though, treat em as idiots and you'll seldom be disapointed.

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I would wager a round, that even if a stationary boat was found to have any culpability at all and i doubt it, that a sail boat that hit it would be held much more culpable.

 

Brucey, I have never felt that Rod Boy was lily white in all this, just that the power boat, which cannot be considered part of the race fleet has obligations under the maritime regs.

And they cannot be dismissed simply because the Squadron "doesn't feel it can take any responsibility today"

 

Can you show me in the maritime regs a boat that is defined "a stationary vessel"?

 

All vessels are tied up, under way or making way.

Some are restricted by draft or other issues, but generally not restricted because the captain decides to go for a wander down the back end for a bit.

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Lucky I'm not the sensitive type KM.

I'd already worked that one out ;)

 

What BK said...... in both his last 2 posts :lol:

 

The yacht isn't squeaky clean, neither boat is just from a common sense everyday happenings point of looking at it all. Both made some bad calls even if the yachts ones weren't uncommon and hardly unexpected from time to time but legally I'm pretty damn sure the powerboat is on far shakier ground then the yacht if you asked a Judge.

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Bad Kitty that is not acceptable.Who is it that is retarded?

From my experience intellectually disabled people including some with Downs syndrome are often far smarter and more street wise than their supposedly normal counterparts. Surely you can do better than that. A change of tack would be appreciated.

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Bad Kitty that is not acceptable.Who is it that is retarded?

From my experience intellectually disabled people including some with Downs syndrome are often far smarter and more street wise than their supposedly normal counterparts. Surely you can do better than that. A change of tack would be appreciated.

 

If you're that offended best you don't come to one of our dinner parties then.

PS, Labour & the PC brigade packed up & left after the last election.

 

It's a joke Battgirl, they always make fun of someone. Sometimes it's me, sometimes it's the Irish, sometimes the Australians. Sometimes the Muslims, but then you have to watch out for the Jihad.

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That you feel the need to use a judgement call (ie the Downs syndrome person pictured is retarded) about someone in a sector of society who still struggles for general social acceptance is sad. Poking fun at poms, aussies, short people etc is a different ball game which I myself also enjoy.

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