Round NZ race 2012

[Jon 360]

All well and good, but there is nothing available, through this course or elsewhere that I am aware of, that will help keep you from pushing that button. Seamanship skills and how to handle heavy weather, crew management..................

 

I take it from this statement Squid that you haven't personally attended this course

As about 3/4 or more of it is about how not to hit the red button

[Guest]

Yep sure a refresher would probably suit most and could be limited to equipment, liferaft, SAR type issues but really I don't think a two day course is that arduous and you learn and relearn many things that are pretty vital if you have a no tolerance attitude to the failure to get everybody home safely.

 

Squid yep it is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff albeit it is a very high and dangerous clliff.

 

I don't know the answer re helping get more experience into the fleet, it was a topic on the RNI, SSANZ do a brilliant job with thhier winter racing but it is still 'enclosed' water but as they say they would happily run wider races but they get no entries, Brian talks about the race to Kerikeri and the previous SSANZ that at least went to sail rock and outside the barrier but there is no real interest in these races now.

 

There is much experience on this site and I would like to see that utilised at least with discussion at yacht clubs re offshore semanship etc and it would be great if the squadron would include some offshore training as part of the youth scheme, but it seems that people just aren't really interested until they decide to do an offshore race or passage and then they just 'turn up' with an around the cans mentality.

 

Although from my point all power to them, when you hear the stories of the olden days there were many boats that did offshore passages with skippers and crew with very limited experience and these guys all figured it out and mostly came home so maybe we ahould all just relax and let Darwin take over.

 

I think we need the ambulance at the bottom of that cliff though!!

[Guest]

All well and good, but there is nothing available, through this course or elsewhere that I am aware of, that will help keep you from pushing that button. Seamanship skills and how to handle heavy weather, crew management..................

 

I take it from this statement Squid that you haven't personally attended this course

As about 3/4 or more of it is about how not to hit the red button

 

I did the course, but obviously not the one you did , if I get some time i'll look up the guys name, it was a small private session. only 4 people.

 

 

So tell us what exactly did they cover, was this the RAYC course? (check homepage it's on again in May)

[Battleship 100]

I did the course a couple of years ago and thought it was bloody good was at the RAYC run by an American guy John someone. Covered alot including weather and Tropical Cyclones, Fire emergencies,sinking, drouges and para anchors, M.O.B. situations, medical emegencies and a hell of alot more.

The session in the raft at the pool was an eye opener for me no way in hell do I ever want to get into one of those rafts it is not an option as far as I am concerned.

[Guest]

Yes all great stuff, especially the aversion you get to ever getting in a raft. And as Marsh said, hearing stories from more experienced guys is gold. But I paid over $500 to do the course in Feb because my 5 years were up and got zip out of it. A couple of hours over a few beers with some RNI guys was 10 times more useful.

[Battleship 100]

Yes all great stuff, especially the aversion you get to ever getting in a raft. And as Marsh said, hearing stories from more experienced guys is gold. But I paid over $500 to do the course in Feb because my 5 years were up and got zip out of it. A couple of hours over a few beers with some RNI guys was 10 times more useful.

 

And alot more enjoyable too

[B00B00 310]

I agree that once you have done it then a refresher course should be all you need, I don’t mind if its still a 2 day course but I think a lot of the topics could be covered quicker as a refresher and then more detail on new things- updates on new safety equipment and rescue techniques (alot can change in 5 years), more real life scenarios and stories (with pictures and video?)and/or guest speakers(im sure there would be heaps of people willing to share their experences)

If it’s a refresher course then there is a good chance most of the people there will have already done plenty of miles so I think the participants input could be greater.

I have done the course 3 times now and although I generally do learn more each time and enjoy it, a lot of it is a waste.

The current course could be better, one question in the exam that really really bugged me was.

 

Operational procedure protocol should be written up for which of the following items-

A- Collision at sea

B- Man overboard

C- Refueling

D- All of the above

 

Answer ‘all of the above’

It was the only question I got wrong.

 

Now call me an idiot but do you actually know anyone on a racing boat (or cruising boat) that has (or needs...) an ‘ operational procedure protocol’ written up for refueling? For f**ks sake….

When I questioned the answer I was told by the instructor that he did have one written up which involved wetting down the teak deck so it didn’t stain and bunch of other stupid stuff that had ZERO factor on sea survival.

Even collisions at sea, no written operational procedure protocol is going to help you as there are so many different cases, was your boat cut in half by a supertanker, did you hit a small underwater object, nudge the mud bottom coming into a marina at 1kt, scrape a pole leaving a dock, touch a marker bouy, scuff another boats stern rail at a mark rounding….. so many different situations that all need completely different reactions and no ‘operational procedure protocol’ is going to make a lick of difference.

Man overboard, yes that’s pretty much always the same procedure, someone has fallen over the side.

This kinda stuff combined with the fact its pretty hard to take any advice on sea survival from the instructor who had abandoned his boat just north of NZ because he was running low on fuel and had torn his genoa and lost his staysail halyard (but still had the genoa and spinnaker halyard) and that the line for the in boom furling main had also chaffed thru so he got airlifted off his boat???

I did leave the course with a sour taste in my mouth but still got plenty out of it and allways enjoy the life raft drills. I think its mainly the fact that it puts you into the mindframe to think about sea survival and just how bad it can go that makes you get so much out of it.

[Guest]

Having done that course twice now I must admit to nearly dozing off once or twice. Much was nothing new and only skimmed the basics. Had more fun watching the other punters, many of which I would have expected to know a lot more than they seemed to which did surprise me, Oh and Ahh at parts of it.

 

The last one had a change of thinking with CPR stuff which was good to know but that was about it really. The best bit is watching how many poohed their undies when they pull the string on their inflatable lifejackets, them going off freaked more than a few The pool part is always fun.

 

As Zen mentioned I think a lot could get more by getting a 'been there done that' person in for a couple of hours of Q&A, much of the course was a little theoretical.

 

But in saying that the courses are good. I did see a lot who seemed to have no idea or hadn't thought of some things raised during it. That can't be a bad thing. So if you haven't done one I'd definitely say do it. If you have done one I suppose it's bang a pile of Red Bulls and get the Cert that seems to be rather compulsory these days, knot that I've ever been asked for mine of have any idea where it maybe, very much like my drivers license.

[Guest]

A couple of years back Crew.org.nz had an evening at RAYC where we had a panel of "been there done thats" (From memory John and Kevin Lidgard, Ross Field, Brian Murray and Mike Keeton), each spoke for ten mins, then pizza and a refreshing ale, then Q&A for the rest of the evening, $20 plus $5 for the pizza

Any interest in a repeat performance? Not trying to undermine the existing course, more add to it.

 

I certainly enjoyed it.

[Jon 360]

All well and good, but there is nothing available, through this course or elsewhere that I am aware of, that will help keep you from pushing that button. Seamanship skills and how to handle heavy weather, crew management..................

 

I take it from this statement Squid that you haven't personally attended this course

As about 3/4 or more of it is about how not to hit the red button

 

I did the course, but obviously not the one you did , if I get some time i'll look up the guys name, it was a small private session. only 4 people.

 

 

So tell us what exactly did they cover, was this the RAYC course? (check homepage it's on again in May)

Yes I did it with RAYC and also the 1 day refresher

Come to think about it I did probably learn more for the other participants than the Instructor

But as said above the new stuff is good to catch up on.

[Guest]

I did my course with Allan at Seawise. There were 4 people on the course, 2 professional sailors, my boyfriend and I. It was brilliant. Allan had all sorts of different equipment to try like different lifejackets, and had a really good series of videos to illistrate his teaching. I have attended commerical sea survival training (including an overnight in a raft at sea) and I really felt that Allan's course gave me a much better chance to learn. The small group in the pool was great as we spent about an hour in the wave pool, and got a chance to do everytihng several times. Also becasue of the small group and the informal teaching style, the group really decided what topics were discussed in detail. Worth the extra cost I thought compared to the 30 people plus events. I got the extra cost back by not buying the lifejacket I thought I wanted, but when I tried it in the pool it was very un-girl friendly.

[Guest]

I got the extra cost back by not buying the lifejacket I thought I wanted, but when I tried it in the pool it was very un-girl friendly.

What an interesting comment. Just what do you mean by that MissG?

And you better knot come back saying the colour choice was insufficient

[Guest]

The life jacket had 175N of bouyancy, when inflated was very large and cumbersome and not well attached to the lifejacket harness. This meant it was far more difficult to enter the liferaft with that life jacket on compare to others. Also it was too high around the neck when uninflated because the hood was packed in with the life jacket.. A quick try on in a shop standing up would not have made me realise these things. I now have a super girl friendly lifejacket, a KRU sport pro which is awesome! The bouyance is more slim line, the jacket is shorter, the hood is packed in a seperate pouch at the back and while it does not come in pink it does come in red.

[Battleship 100]

Speaking of lifejackets, we had a guy on our course who decided to save money and blow his jacket up manually, but on getting into the raft the inflation cord caught and tripped the Co2 which blew his jacket to bits, very funny for the rest of us but not so much for him.

[Marshy 30]

A couple of years back Crew.org.nz had an evening at RAYC where we had a panel of "been there done thats" (From memory John and Kevin Lidgard, Ross Field, Brian Murray and Mike Keeton), each spoke for ten mins, then pizza and a refreshing ale, then Q&A for the rest of the evening, $20 plus $5 for the pizza

Any interest in a repeat performance? Not trying to undermine the existing course, more add to it.

 

I certainly enjoyed it.

 

Sounds like a good idea! I'd be keen to come to something like that and hear the stories! Think Booboo would have to be a guest speaker with some of the interesting experiences he has had with Hugo Boss and the Young 11 etc! There is plenty of good experience around that channelled into the right scenario a lot can learn from.

[Guest]

I bribed the speakers with Mount Gay last time so Booboo might just be a starter.

[smithy09 50]

A couple of years back Crew.org.nz had an evening at RAYC where we had a panel of "been there done thats" (From memory John and Kevin Lidgard, Ross Field, Brian Murray and Mike Keeton), each spoke for ten mins, then pizza and a refreshing ale, then Q&A for the rest of the evening, $20 plus $5 for the pizza

Any interest in a repeat performance? Not trying to undermine the existing course, more add to it.

 

I certainly enjoyed it.

I would be very keen, as long as I am home...

[Battleship 100]

Anyway back to the topic, anyone know when the NOR is likely to come out?

[splashprincess 16]

I was really impressed with the briefing that SSANZ ran for the RNI 2011, which included RFD display and a chat from Dr Dave on first aid at sea. Not to mention the helicopter rescue!

[PaulR 3]

Speaking of lifejackets, we had a guy on our course who decided to save money and blow his jacket up manually, but on getting into the raft the inflation cord caught and tripped the Co2 which blew his jacket to bits, very funny for the rest of us but not so much for him.

 

Here again there is such a simple lesson to be learned that if abandoning and stepping up into the raft, unwinding unused clyinders could be an important safety step.

 

Yes the courses are worthwhile, especially the wave pool. The realistic 1m waves are worth 20 or more calm water dinghy sessions.

 

Refresher Courses: Yes but it could be more like a half day wave pool + lecture on new gears, ideas and Q&A session. Perhaps a qualification of 10k or 20k ocean miles experience would be good.

 

Sitting through all the basic stuff again would be boring for those with lots of experience. Perhaps a quick 20min written test to see how much one has retained or knows every 5 years would be MORE or VERY useful. i.e. if less than 80% or 90% questions right, then time to do the full couse again. It could be self administered when booking the course or an online test that times out.

 

I agree the mental approach to survival is the most valid one and experience of many offshore races is no longer possible for most sailors, now that more harbour races are the norm.

 

One harbour race was cancelled recently because of winds. Fair enough and I was happy with the decision. However talking a few days later, it would of been a good day to try our #4 Jib and 50% deep reefed main or a trysail and storm jib.

 

Todays forecast:

For Manukau and Waitemata Harbours, and for Hauraki Gulf:

Monday: Southwest 40 knots gusting 50 knots, easing to southerly 25 knots gusting 35 knots this evening . . .

 

offers that opportunity but who is free to sail today?