RNI Budget Costs & Gear

[Fish 0]

For someone thinking about the pros & cons of having a crack at one of these 'Round the ....' races, how much does it actually cost? what sort of budget would you need to have a good crack at it? What is actually involved in putting together a campaign like that?

 

Lets take a starting point of the boat already having the basic required CAT 1/2 safety requirements.

 

How much for a total budget?

Insurance;

Food;

entry fees / CAT inspections

Boat upgrades / toys

wear and tear / depreciation

broken sh*t...

 

Boat Gear:

Who used fully spec'ed autopilots (hydraulic, gyro / rate gyro etc), or

Common or garden variety autopilot, or

none

 

Kite socks:

On all downwind sails;

on one / most important downwind sails

none,

or

martin breaker systems

gennaker furlers etc

 

Electronics:

who used the full weather routing packages (i.e. Expedition, grin files etc), sat phones with data

or just metservice forecasts; or 'look out the window forecasts'

chart plotter or just the good old handheld GPS.

 

What's realistic for one of these races, RNI or RNZ?

 

There's a wealth of knowledge just recovered from the RNI by now, it would be great to understand whats involved in pulling a campaign like that together.

[Guest]

Cost us 10k for each of the first 2 and only 6 for this one. But we very underdone on the first and third. I'm picking 25 to do RNZ with the extra sails needed so probably won't be able to. Never used an autopilot or a furler, kite sock, or a routing package. Only a hand held GPS the first time but a plotter sure makes things a lot easier. Most would be surprised how quickly the costs mount up. Just the silly offshore class was 500 each. The entry fee will more than likely double next time, 400 didn't go close to paying for the event. Luckily SSANZ got a big cash injection from the NZ Yachting Trust. Provisioning is nothing, you have to eat anyway. You always break stuff, that's an expense and pretty hard to budget for. I saw 3 different boats ship new batteries in Mangonui this year at far north prices. Most of the weather is look out the window. I remember in 2002, the only weather report we got between Mangonui and Wellington was that there was a chance of rain in New Plymouth. Radio reception can be pretty bad 100 miles off shore. I'd love to be able to do it with all the toys but haven't been able to so far. It seems that code zeroes are essential now and we don't have one. Nice to be able to furl it so that's a pile more money. We only decided to do this RNI 3 weeks out from the start and there were 110 items on the job list. Numbers 125 to 130 were finished on the morning of the race. Allow lots of dosh, doing it on too tight a budget sucks.

[smithy09 50]

Never used an autopilot

 

That's tough! Downright masochistic I would have thought.

[Guest]

Used one, just not in this race.

I reckon a conservative average of the boats that compete would be 10k. That's for stuff you wouldn't have done otherwise. Some spend considerably more. 42 entries originally= 420k

SSANZ had a budget between 30 and 40k. People like Cookey, Cameron and co have phone and petrol bills that would astonish you, the personal input from committee members is huge. Jon Henry drove from Maramarua 20 times. Another 5k spent by sailors and guests to attend the prizegiving. Sponsored advertising on brochures and people like RFD having to deploy a life raft at briefing, Westpac ran their chopper for an hour, TONS of free hours from helpers at the stops, all driving there and taking time off work. Half a mil? Puts our measly 6k into perspective.

[Justuts 0]

Also, don't underestimate 'basic CAT1/2' kit. Unless you are actually already there, this stuff adds up really quickly. Medkit and Liferaft in particular will chew up a few $K (unless anyone knows where to get cheap morphine ), plus lots of little stuff and lots of time ensuring boat is set up both above and below decks.

 

For RNI 08 we didn't use socks, furlers or auto-helm of any kind. We now consider auto-helm essential, but probably not anything too serious unless you're sailing a planing hull. It's not a single handed race. Probably wouldn't bother with socks, we can drop from the cockpit in pretty much anything (only a 33ft boat though), but we are figuring out what to do with head sails. Head sail changes are frequent and always into the sea way.

 

Sat phone into the laptop worked reasonably well for grib files, but was slow and very expensive. Would consider SSB into laptop but need to weigh up the fixed cost of this based on how much use it is going to get in other races. You need to have one or the other anyway so putting it into the lappy is straightforward from there.

 

3G stick works near the coast, saves lots of iridium minutes and allows internet as well as gribs. We didn't use routing software. I think for RNI or anything shorter, printing out a 7 day forecast at each stop over and keeping tabs on the barometer/window on the way is probably going to get you 85% there in terms of tactics.

 

Despite all of this, the pros outweigh the cons, so start with a couple of shorter races (Tauranga is only CAT3), and when you get hooked it will be an easy decision.

[Guest]

I didn't even start on the cost of the damage. 3 dismastings, boats on trucks, doctor's bills etc etc. Lots more money going round and round. We may not be too popular with the insurance companies after that lot. I personally batted on about the NZ race for years before SSANZ finally agreed just to shut me up. Now I probably won't be doing it. But I'll certainly be on the beach at Stewart Island. The next thing we'd like to look at is a decent single handed race. Nothing to rival the New Plymouth Yacht Club event as we're fundamentally opposed to being near shore when we should be sleeping but something pretty demanding, maybe something as long as Simrad 3? I reckon it will be very popular.

[Battleship 100]

Ours worked out to about 15k, but we started with a CAT3 so had a bit of work to do, not including food and time off work.

We didn't have a sock or code zero on a furler but I was amazed by the number who did have zero's. We ran mostly with a #2 on the furler and staysail but next time I would be loking at a nice #3 on a solent type removable stay, that would make gear changes real easy as alot of the time the #2 was too much and the staysail not enough, add a nice zero on a furler and you would have an awesome setup.

For us we found an extra kite pole and double sheets made gybing the kite easy even in stronger wind saw a few boats struggling with socks and wouldn't bother with them myself.

 

We had an electronic autopilot which worked well in flatter water but one into the big waves it started to get pushed around. Didn't have routing software like expedidtion but it really paid off for those that had it in the last leg (Open Country & Coppellia). I was supprised how far from land the XT network goes alot of the time we could get onto swellmap etc.

 

We had very little damage but next time I would have more put aside as the bills could quickly rack up and it wouldn't have taken much to put us out of the race.

 

Little things that I wouldn't do without:

The anchor point on the cockpit, gives you alot of secruity when a wave breaks over you.

A handheld gps/plotter.

Decent handrails inside the boat, we ran a sturdy rope down the centerline of the roof in the saloon and found ourselves using it all the time.

It may sound silly but a hot water bottle was great for keeping warm at night stuffed down the jacket it's a real morale booster when your cold and wet.

 

Thats just for us on an old overweight 1 tonner, it's a great race and if you can do it, DO!

[Jon 360]

Hi Fish

 

How much for a total budget? $5-50k, 1 of the bigges is you need to take a month off work, 1 week to prepare 2 weeks for the race and another week to recover

Insurance; Your probably covered $5m pl

Food; Unless you don't eat when at home then 0

entry fees / CAT inspections $1000 + $1000 sea survial

Boat upgrades / toys Wish list stuff

wear and tear / depreciation alot more than just sailing around the gulf but

broken sh*t... no more than doing an offshore

Boat Gear:

Who used fully spec'ed autopilots (hydraulic, gyro / rate gyro etc), or

Common or garden variety autopilot, or

none the best you can afford

 

Kite socks:

On all downwind sails;

on one / most important downwind sails

none, it's not like a simrad were you need to do it right now

or We have a sock but only on our heavy weather kite

martin breaker systems

gennaker furlers etc

 

Electronics:

who used the full weather routing packages (i.e. Expedition, grin files etc), sat phones with data

or just metservice forecasts; or 'look out the window forecasts'

chart plotter or just the good old handheld GPS.

All of the above or nothing

We us mobile internet have a chartplotter down below and a handheld chartplotter

What's realistic for one of these races, RNI or RNZ?

I think you really need to do RNI before considering RNZ

 

There's a wealth of knowledge just recovered from the RNI by now, it would be great to understand whats involved in pulling a campaign like that together.

[PeteG 13]

The figures above are pretty realistic.

Nonstop first time well over $10K, and much the same again this time- even with the boat well set up and organised. Thank goodness we have some very supportive sponsors too.

Can confirm that Jenny's new carpet is not happening anytime soon.

 

Time is the other big factor especially for us based down south.

 

Good luck with planning for the race, RNI is well worth doing- but plan it well and start now for 2014.

Pete

[Guest]

We came through Cook straight on a very dark and windy night, we kept the fractional kite up for most of it (steady 10-13 knots boat speed), steering by wind angle instrument took 110% of my concentration, and Tom was calling the shots from the GPS chartplotter. Having a GPS chartplotter you can see easily from the helm is something I would recommend. The guys on Clear vision had wireless instruments made by Tactics attached with velcro, this seemed like a good idea to get the instruments closer to your eyes.

Some of the boats had internet access the whole way round (two that I know of, were bird on the wing and open country), and having access to predict wind, and other info paid off for them.

We just had the iphone, and didn't have reception very often, I was hoping for better reception (I'm with vodafone)

We hired the sat ph. After wellington the scheds were changed to VHF, but the first half of the race was two calls a day on the sat ph which costs.

We also hired a spot tracker for only $75 for a month which I would highly recommend (bargain), friends and family really embraced the race, which inspired us to push on for them when we were low. It can also come with you in the liferaft.

Clear vision burnt through two autopilots, one which was borrowed (not sure what brand). Our Raymarine one performed valiantly. The recommendation would be to go as bulletproof as you can afford on your auto pilot, your keel, your rudder, and your rig, it was discussed at one stage that turnbuckles are very difficult to inspect properly, and a solution to this would be to replace them, every so often, so you know they're good.

Another area we spent money on was our power supply, ie; batteries and methods of charging them. We fitted a new volvo penta, 13hp diesel, with a saildrive, this motor is remarkably economical, and has a decent alternator which got our batteries back up to full after about an hours charging (1 litre diesel approx) in the morning. We also had a decent guage fitted so we knew exactly where our batteries were at. Some boats had issues with fuel ie diesel bug, or water in the fuel (something else to guard against). We also had a solar panel which we kept below and pulled out when in port, and a lead on board so we could plug in when in port.

We used a furling headsail, which Rodney from Evolution sails said wasn't designed to do what we were doing with it. The advantage was we could make adjustments quickly and easily without leaving the cockpit. The sails a bit worse for wear now though. We bought 2 new sails 1). a code 0, and we really needed it as we are very underpowered in the light 2). a fractional spinnaker. Our main was pretty new also.

I was surprised we didn't blow out any sails, as some of the other extras were fairly fragile.

We carried a sea brake as well, not sure how many of the others had similar. I gave up being overly weight conscious as I didn't want to worry about running out of anything like water or fuel for instance.

One of the boats contacted backcountry cuisine direct and got a discount on their dehydrated food, this was a good idea, but the motion of our boat was so violent down the west coast, I wouldn't want to be boiling water.

We put netting over all the cubby holes, this was great for organising gear and keeping it in place, netting across our open transom, also reduced the risk of losing things over the side.

Our tiller pilot was stored in a plastic tube tied to the deck with a screw on lid, this worked really well, and meant we could single handedly remove it or install it.

We also mounted our life raft on deck, with a quick release buckle, and had a cover, as it is one of those ones in a bag thats not supposed to get wet.

we had plenty of spare double A and tripple A batteries, for the two backup handheld GPS chartplotters we carried. in waterproof containers. I also bought half a dozen 20 litre drybags, which were very usefull.

I bought a Lensor P7 torch also (hunters use these attached to their rifles), this was brilliant on a number of occasions, ie when checking halyards weren't tangled at night, when looking to drop anchor in Manganui, checking sails at night etc. Lensor also make great headlamp torches.

Good deck speakers are essential also.

[Guest]

I think the budget depends on your current maintenance and sail wardrobe. Clear Vision was already cat 3 so cat 2 required not much more than a sat phone. She was already very well maintained and our sail wardrobe fairly new including a new 3dl main thanks to the great folks at norths sails. We did buy a stay sail and a jib top and had sponsorship for a new storm kite. We also set up the reefing for two handed sailing where everything could be done by one person from the cockpit thanks to the clever people at duffys yacht and rigging.

 

Most of our instruments are now wireless as the chaps from mix t motions pointed out - all Tactic gear except for our chart plotter being a navman. Tactic gear is absolutely superb and didn't draw on our batteries as all powered by the sun. Would have that gear on any new boat. Our chart plotter is on a stainless steel arm that is just inside the cabin and swings around into the cockpit. We had several back ups being an app called navionics on both iphones just in case the chart plotter died. We had a spare gps in the grab bag too.

 

We did burn through two raymarine auto helms. One fairly new and the other borrowed also in very good condition. Both motors burnt out within 24 hours coming down the west coast in 3-4 m seas. I would still take two.

 

We didn't have any major gear failures except for the auto helms. I think this is because we reefed early, had the boat in top condition as we maintain clear vision - if anything is a bit worn we replace it and we got a bit lucky.

 

As we were from Welly we had to deliver the boat to AKL. We did so in two legs and used one as the qualifier being Napier to AKL.

 

We had beautiful frozen meals in aluminium containers made by our dear friend karen. These were just put in the oven to heat up.

 

I would give yourself a month of leave off work. One of us is self employed and the other not. We both had enough reserves to cover expenses duing the time we didn't work. We spent a year planning and created a register of to dos including the safety at sea course. We pulled out in Welly for a number of reasons and have a date with the startlline in three years time. We were by far the most inexperienced crew with four years of sailing each and have owned clear vision for three years but worked really hard to be ready to take on this challenge. Might see you in AKL in 2014.

[smithy09 50]

The last two write ups were gold. Thanks guys.

[Fish 0]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, this information is absolute gold!

 

Don't worry Jon, I plan to scare myself shitless several times before I even think about considering the RNZ...

 

Willow, I've also been thinking about a solent jib on an inner forestay, also doubling as a storm jib stay, back from the bow, better balance on the boat and easier / quicker to change gears (with hank on headsails...) not sure if the mast can handle the forces with the current rig though.

 

Interesting feedback on the raymarine autopilots, Midnight Express (go the Birdsall!) burnt one out as well, previously they swore by it. There are some strong hydraulic options out there, think I need to continue with my primary plan to acquire one, Lotto tickets

[Guest]

See Smithy - piece of cake!!

 

Quick summary - Autopilots are the biggest hassle.

There's no limit to what you can spend, but get the basics as good as you can and you'll get around.

Bit worried about the food, I like to eat well when I'm sailing.

[Guest]

Coppelia has not been raced for many years when Rob and I decided to do the RNI. It took us 6 months to get cat 3, and the next 13 months to get cat 2, however, I do say at the same time Rob put in a new Nav. station, replaced much of the galley, and renovated the quarter berths.

 

Neil and I built and repaired all our electronics. The star of the show was our 1997 Navico Ocean pilot, with a LA 5 actuator. We changed all the components on the circuit boards. The actuator is a beast with a max load of 700kg, we never had any trouble with it. The same actutor can be run offf a tiller pilot brain box with a series of relays, and we had an older autohelm brain box that was kindly donated to us as a back up.

 

Our chartplotter was built from a PC out of a vending machine, we used a stardard Dell monitor as a screen.

 

I cooked all our meals and froze them, we then boiled them in a pressure cooker.

 

Our big cost was sails, a main, kite, 2, 3, zero, but this was mainly because the race sails had been sold when the boat has become a cruising boat.

 

We did not have a sock, we never felt we needed one. We had a furler for our zero made from a parts from the jumbo bin and finished off with Rob learning to weld on the night before the start.

 

I suppose our all up cost was about $15K, but we did have an exceptional sponsor - Tasman Bay Navigation Systems and Expedition, and we also had a great team of friends that spent many hours helping us. Moreover, Rob worked at least 20 hours a week on the boat from August 2009 to race day. I think we were pretty lucky to have such a mix of skills in the crew, that we did everything ourselves which kept the costs down.

[Guest]

Hi again

 

If anyone is interested in a bit more info, we have done a write up of our adventure. It was truly an amazing adventure ranging from exhilerating to terrifying. Biggest lesson is refueling yourself. Make sure you eat all the time, keep dry and be ready for any unexpected weather conditions.

 

You can read our blog at:

 

http://cv-sail.blogspot.com/

[Guest]

even though we only got half way this time I have finished the video.

its on www.fyfesails.co.nz. Click gallery then click videos on the side.

Also a vid from whitebait the time before.

 

I estimate we spent $10,000 on top of our usual cat 3 gear but the cost to go round new zealand next year and offshore for the next couple years will be alot less as most of the gear has 3 years life before expiry.

 

I would advise save the cash. Then buy all the safety gear from safety at sea just before the race. Then its still valid for a couple adventures afterwards.

 

I wouldn't skimp on communications and I will be buying a sat phone for round new zealand.

 

we had very little computer navigation Eg: expedition and didn't seem to be an issue if you know what to keep an eye on and have all the sails..

 

Longer races this is definately essential.

 

 

We run a full raymarine system that was awesome. they are great to deal with very helpfull even though we left setting it up to the night before the race.

[Chill Pill 1]

I can confirm about 15k AFTER I got cat 3 for the coastal.

Valium had been neglected for about 3 years and we ended up attending to 168 items before the start. We wanted to be finished the boat prep program 1 week out from the start and managed to acheive this. Our goal was to get into port, pack up the boat and have some refreshments. We didn't want to be running around during the stopovers fixing the boat. The hours of prep worked in our favour. In port we put the battery charger and de-hum on. During the race ran the motor for about an hour, generally twice a day.

 

I put 5 sails on the boat, 2 new, a fractional gennaker and a #3, rest second hand. Recut the one, put a 3rd reef in the main (used it often) and a s/h JT. I wanted a code zero, but that is on the wish list for another time. Instead, I got a big overlapping #1 off a 40fter and used that as a poor mans zero, Valiums #1 doesn't overlap and the "zero" sheeted back to past the companion way. We used it often. Inventory for the race was 4S sails, 2A sails, 6 headsails and a main, spares with the shore crew were a main, 1S sail, 1A sail and 2 headsails, we didn't need them.

 

During our qualifier we tried a sock on the big kite, and the autohelm. Both were ditched for the race. Pain in the arse. We decided that if anything needed doing on deck, we would both do it. ie, wake the other guy up! We didn't have any special weather software, just listened to the forecastings on VHF. Of interest, our first 2 handed race together was the first leg!

 

The boat came with Navman instruments which are pretty sh*t. I'm not sure I would bother changing them in a hurry as there is always something more important to buy, but one day they will see the dumpster. We also took 2 hand hald chart plotters in addition to the main chart plotter, and a hand held GPS. A bucket load of AA batteries and 3 trusty Dolphin torches.

 

The guys at the BBYC loaned me a bit of gear, med kit, life raft, SSB, danbuoy and we borrowed a satphone for the skeds. People were very happy to help out in this way, and the day we removed the rig for inspection and repair was very well attended. Cost me more in beer that doing the rig!

 

Damon did all the food, cooked up meals and froze them for the race which worked out well. We decided on two decent feeds a day and snacks etc between. Soon into the race we bailed on the time for dinner program and just ate when hungry. Bacon butties at 4am are key! We stocked to wellington, and restocked there. The boat was stripped for racing. The watch system was one hr on one off.

 

RNZ? No, next year is to soon. I have to work for a living and blew most of my leave on RNI and my entire budget for the years racing, its just too soon after RNI for me. However if anyone needs shore crew, count me in! Hope the info is helpful for those considering these kinds of races. Start the boat prep NOW!!

 

I will chuck up a race report in the next few days.

Cheers

Gary

[Guest]

However if anyone needs shore crew, count me in!

 

Addictive isn't it.

[smithy09 50]

Nice write up Gary. Thanks. After coming close to buying Valium, (But getting gazzumped by you! ) I'd be interested to hear what you found wrong with her. I had a pretty good look, and superficially she looked OK. I still like the boat. How is it to sail? I look forward to the full RNI write up. See you on the start line in 2013???