ScottiE 174 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 should be a fun club night tonight - John and others puffing their feathers while Mikey smashes Clive in the carpark! Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Haha now thats worth joining the multihull class to see that kind of enthusiasm Great optimism there scottie Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 And all of you seem to have missed the point that under todays operation of rules and law the organising authority can be held liable if an incident should occur and that includes taking the officers of the club to court and if convicted ordering them to pay costs and fines personally. So the Club is quite within its rights to cancel an event if the Officer considers the risk of a incident is too high, eg starting a single handed event in adverse weather conditions. All they are doing is protecting the club from possible legal action by the police or Maritime NZ should something bad happen. Actually I am not sure how the SSANZ gets around this because it could (would) be considered inappropriate to run (be in control of..) a yachting event for solo sailors which involves operating without proper lookout, ie overnight. Today clubs, not just yachtclubs are far more legally liable than the average punter might think and all YNZ does is provide a lawyer. Having the skipper/owner sign a declaration does NOT waive the responsiblity of the organising authority. Rant over. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Its a shame but the PC thing is all very true, TimB. To what extent I'm not sure, and it will probably take a court case in the future if something really goes Pear Shape (like the 79 Fastnet) to find out what is done. The other facet is of Insurance. Its really there to cover you in the case of Unforeseeable accidents or Occurrences. Its never been there to cover under engineered beams or rigs. But in the past unfortunately there have been lots of claims of a very dodgy nature. Insurance is much harder to get now, And the definition of what is "unforeseeable" is getting much tighter. Keelboat owners get away with Blue Murder compared to Multi owners. In the future I could see Capsize Insurance as being totally impossible to get, as a Capsize is a foreseeable consequence of racing a multihull. When I recently tried to get new insurance, all of the recent Multihull incidents were mentioned by my broker, such as Silveraider (x2), Sublime (x2), Frantic, Timberwolf,Repeat Offender, Tigre (x2), Deeds, and even TWU was mentioned. Even though no legal blame can be apportioned to TWU, and the S34 accepted all responsibility, and of all the above it is the best example of an "accident". The reason it got raised is that because of its super light construction TWU had far more severe damage than if S34 had hit another S34. For sure Multi Insurance will be getting harder and harder to obtain, (before it gets easier, anyway). Being responsible, and minimising the chances of needing to claim, is just common sense. BTW, we can't get any Sailing cover whatever. We are covered under motor, while at Anchor or Moored, and we have 3rd Party cover at all times. If we crash and its our fault, we have no cover. If we crash and its someone elses fault we will have to protest them and rely on their third party cover or take them to court. Oh the joys of owning a multihull! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Keelboat owners get away with Blue Murder No one has got away with it. It's on the hard in Whangarei getting it's bum sandblasted or at least it was on Monday. True and No I have no idea why you'd call your boat that but it is registered in England which may explain something. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 And the best way to encourage another Fastnet/Hobart type disaster? Don't send the fleet out in strong but less than life threatening weather so they only ever sail in winds under 25kn. Then when the inevitable happens no one knows how to deal with it and the boats and gear are just a wee bit too light. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 DanInEurope I agree with you, and I started this discussion to see if any others felt as I did And if we are, can we race even if it's a wind warning. If people are concerned, they should reef, but it does give us all a better chance of doing well, and it includes the decision of 'race or not race' and 'reef or not reef'What say the rest of you? But was staggered at the vitriole shown. However, I am happy with the outcome, that others are not keen, but think maybe it's not that they feel it's unsafe, rather, they are unhappy to have to decide how much sail is safe. This shows itself in the fact that there has been no comment (apart from MM) on sailing with extras. Now if that is the reason, then I would suggest they are more worried about the size of their manliness, than their actual manliness size,(if you get what I mean) Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Now if that is the reason, then I would suggest they are more worried about the size of their manliness, than their actual manliness size,(if you get what I mean) You've done it again! Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 You're right AA That was bit off, I apologise, shouldn't have written that Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Actually I am not sure how the SSANZ gets around this because it could (would) be considered inappropriate to run (be in control of..) a yachting event for solo sailors which involves operating without proper lookout, ie overnight. . SSANZ doesn't currently run a solo event. If we do it will be over a course and duration that the single hander should be able to stay awake for. We're fundamentally opposed to creating that situation. I agree with Dan. People keep bringing up the Wellington cyclist who tragically lost her life. The organising authority, while hauled over the coals, was eventually exonerated. That is the only precedent we have in NZ and even that one didn't end up apportioning blame. The signed waiver, I believe, will stand up and there is very little need for race committees to be as nervous as they are IMHO. But it does behoove all of us to respect the decision of the withdrawing skipper whether he has decided to do so for reasons of boat soundness or experience. I loudly applauded the seamanlike decisions of the RNI skippers who either ran for cover or retired. I don't even care if they were just pussies (which they weren't). That's a good enough reason for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Can we quickly summarise and put this thing to bed? Some people want to race in different conditions to others. This is neither a good nor bad thing, each to their own. How's that? Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm happy with that as far as wind strenth is concerned, but has not answered the question of racin with extras. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 And that we should change it to "Single handed with a spare body onboard that does nothing but look good" so we can encourage hot chicks into racing multi's - Then we can see who is "Manly" enough Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Could I add AA "it's up to a club whether they hold a race or not, for whatever reason they like". If an individual doesn't like it, I'd suggest two actions more appropriate than publicly slagging them or their members. (1), write to their appropriate committee expressing your views and (2), if they disagree, race with a club more closely aligned with your views. Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 should be a fun club night tonight - John and others puffing their feathers while Mikey smashes Clive in the carpark! Post-match report, preferably with photos, eagerly awaited by those of us watching from the cheap seats. Sorry Clive, it's not that I think you deserve it either, I am just a sucker for entertainment. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 When they wouldn't race a laser race in the South Pacifics in Wgtn cos it was too fresh Andy Murdoch quietly rigged his boat and went out - an hour or so of blasting up and down the beach gybing tacking flying etc. Job done... Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Markm If an individual doesn't like it, I'd suggest two actions more appropriate than publicly slagging them or their members. (1), write to their appropriate committee expressing your views and (2), if they disagree, race with a club more closely aligned with your views. I started this discussion to get other people's opinions, then if there was agreement, I would then have approached the multi club to change it. It seems to me people are happy with the status quo, so I will leave it at that, but I feel it's a bit rich to suggest I'm slagging them. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 should be a fun club night tonight - John and others puffing their feathers while Mikey smashes Clive in the carpark! Post-match report, preferably with photos, eagerly awaited by those of us watching from the cheap seats. Sorry Clive, it's not that I think you deserve it either, I am just a sucker for entertainment. didn't make it sorry, there was too much good stuff on rescue 1 on tv. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 BRING BACK THE BIFF Link to post Share on other sites
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