Search for missing yacht on East Cape

[Guest]

Very sad event and condolences to his family and friends.

 

I just read on the Herald website that RCCNZ are defending their decision to call off the search after 3 days. At best this call was controversial, and at worst negligent in my view. If I was out there in difficulty I sure as hell hope they would try for longer than 3 days...

 

Clearly there was still a yacht to be found and he could have been on board.

 

I acknowledge that in this case the outcome probably would have been the same had the search continued longer and the yacht been found earlier, as all indications are that he fell off the yacht quite some time ago. But this is the outcome of luck rather than good management by RCCNZ.

 

Look back at the statements in the media when the search was called off - huge area covered - the yacht isn't afloat - yadda yadda yadda....

 

Lets try and learn something from this tragedy. What was the real reason for calling the search off so early???......in different circumstances this could have been the difference between life and death.

 

I really hope that the answer is not "Funding".

[Guest]

What was the real reason for calling the search off so early???......in different circumstances this could have been the difference between life and death.

 

I really hope that the answer is not "Funding".

I certainly hope you are wrong, but sadly I think there is some truth here though. SAR do the best they can with what they got, but I think time for a fulltime professional body

[Guest]

Very sad event and condolences to his family and friends.

 

I just read on the Herald website that RCCNZ are defending their decision to call off the search after 3 days. At best this call was controversial, and at worst negligent in my view. If I was out there in difficulty I sure as hell hope they would try for longer than 3 days...

 

Clearly there was still a yacht to be found and he could have been on board.

 

I acknowledge that in this case the outcome probably would have been the same had the search continued longer and the yacht been found earlier, as all indications are that he fell off the yacht quite some time ago. But this is the outcome of luck rather than good management by RCCNZ.

 

Look back at the statements in the media when the search was called off - huge area covered - the yacht isn't afloat - yadda yadda yadda....

 

Lets try and learn something from this tragedy. What was the real reason for calling the search off so early???......in different circumstances this could have been the difference between life and death.

 

I really hope that the answer is not "Funding".

 

 

Well said and true. but..

How long do you search and where?

 

you could take the yachts maximum speed and work out a maximum search area but how much do you spend on what is a freak accident ? meanwhile people go missing everyday and very little is done.

 

Take a missing person that leaves home! and/or is abducted. the search is cheap by comparison and the parents of the abducted child are not afforded the same expense for a act that sometimes is beyond thier control.

 

and the search is called of relativley quickly by the police.

 

We are lucky we have a search and rescue setup that at least gives it a try?

 

The length of the search was short but it was also to late!

 

it should have been instigated the minute the yacht was overdue (2 days eta) and thus the search area is reduced along with search time and cost.

 

If you had to chose between saving 5 abducted children for thre same cost as 1 lost sailor what would you choose?

 

lots to think about aye.

[Steve Pope 243]

A thought, the boat was found by the Orion, was it on a routine training

mission?? How many flying hours are allocated per month for training purposes?? When they are out searching are the costs transfered from training to SAR?? We are often told the rescue cost X amount, surely if the hours come from the training budget it shouldn't show as a separate amount as surely searching for a needle in a haystack (small vessel) would be what they are training for anyway.

 

I know when we used to see the Hercules doing low level flying up North it was said that they were using up their fuel allocation as if it wasn't all used up it could be reduced when the next allocation was made. True ? False??

 

As a fellow solo sailor I have often thought of what if, you cant cover every eventuality and life is too short to wrap yourself in cotton wool. I must assume that he died doing something he enjoyed, I will think of him the next time I am sailing on my own.

[Guest]

A thought, the boat was found by the Orion, was it on a routine training

mission?? How many flying hours are allocated per month for training purposes?? When they are out searching are the costs transfered from training to SAR?? We are often told the rescue cost X amount, surely if the hours come from the training budget it shouldn't show as a separate amount as surely searching for a needle in a haystack (small vessel) would be what they are training for anyway.

 

I know when we used to see the Hercules doing low level flying up North it was said that they were using up their fuel allocation as if it wasn't all used up it could be reduced when the next allocation was made. True ? False??

 

As a fellow solo sailor I have often thought of what if, you cant cover every eventuality and life is too short to wrap yourself in cotton wool. I must assume that he died doing something he enjoyed, I will think of him the next time I am sailing on my own.

 

Maybe they put the training area into an extended search area?

 

That would be smart!

 

theres hope yet?

[Guest]

Yep you are on the money Steve Pope.

 

I am fairly confident that the orions don't leave whenuapai to go "training" 100 km's west of the Chatams all that often. No coincidence there and the flyboys do the best they can with limited resources.

 

But I am equally confident that they have not been out "training" off the east coast for the last 13 or so days since the search was called off, they certainly havn't been out there with the intensity involved in a proper Search operation...

 

Pretty sad when we need to play these budgeting games at a time like this.

[grant 40]

I certainly hope you are wrong, but sadly I think there is some truth here though. SAR do the best they can with what they got, but I think time for a fulltime professional body

 

at this level SAR is a full time professional body

[Guest]

I certainly hope you are wrong, but sadly I think there is some truth here though. SAR do the best they can with what they got, but I think time for a fulltime professional body

 

at this level SAR is a full time professional body

 

Then it is time to fund them better.

 

any ideas anyone

[wheels 543]

Out of respect, I was going to stop posting about this topic. But I read this article this morning and thought it rather special about the Dolphin.

Copied from "Stuff"

The discovery of Paul van Rensburg's dog alive aboard his drifting yacht has offered some comfort to friends of the missing man.

The retriever-cross named Juanita was found skinny but alert after drifting at sea for 16 days on the boat Tafadzwa.

Mr van Rensburg, 40, is believed to have fallen overboard.

"It's been a small ray of sunshine in an otherwise grim day," friend Warwick Gowland said. "She'll be well looked after."

The yacht was towed into the Chatham Islands yesterday, as a lone dolphin swam in circles around it.

Chatham Islander Floyd Prendeville boarded Tafadzwa to help tow it to safety. "It looked empty till the local police constable and I found the dog shivering in the galley. After some reassuring pats, she came around. The empty yacht was eerie. As a fisherman of 21 years, I have never seen an empty vessel at sea."

Local fisherman Eddie Reriti said the sight of the lone dolphin "made us think a few different things".

[Murky 1]

I think that the discussion is healthy and hopefully there is no lack of respect, given that - judging from the media coverage - his friends are having a similar discussion.

 

Next time it could be one of us out there. So it would be nice to know that any lessons that should be learned are being learned.

 

From my perspective, I am not sure that the issue comes down to funding alone. Other questions I would have are:

- given that we now know the boat was afloat and upright (and visible from the air in calmer conditions), why did it not show up on radar during the original search? Was the search area as designated accurate/large enough?

- was there a view that a steel boat would have sunk like a stone and did that contribute to the decision to call off the search when they did?

- as raised by others in previous posts, is there an anomaly (OK then I will call it a stupidity) between the available SAR budget and the RNZAF training budget?

 

As with many other things in life, to spend the money and not achieve the objective, if it turns out there is a possibility that a bit more would have got the job done, is the most costly approach of all.

[Guest]

I do feel for this guys family and their loss.

 

For those who are banging on about SAR, any possible failings on their behalf or any shortfall in funding....

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

Paul was sailing solo, that is his choice, and his alone.

If something were to go wrong while sailing solo, the odds are against you.

If you can't communicate for whatever reason, you are on your own.

 

If you go overboard on a fully crewed boat you are in deep deep trouble.

If you go overboard while solo with a lifejacket on you are most likely stuffed.

If you go overboard without a lifejacket on you really are stuffed.

 

The hard facts are that if you are out their on your own, with no proper radio sched or similar arranged, then SAR owes you nothing.

 

Please do not try and turn this into a failure by the SAR / authorities.

[Guest]

I must assume that he died doing something he enjoyed, I will think of him the next time I am sailing on my own.

 

Me too. Too often I think I'm bullet proof but this guy was no mug and he fell overboard so it will certainly make me think more about tying on.

[Murky 1]

Well Paddy, I have respect for your input and agree with a number of your points about the likelihood of survival having gone over the side.

 

The part that troubles me is that an 11m steel-hulled yacht, upright, with rig intact and sails up and a brightly-coloured kayak on deck, was not "find-able" until too late. I readily acknowledge that a lack of information about the whereabouts did not help but some of the explanations offered up around that time were that the boat wasn't there to be found because it had sunk.

 

My view is that, without descending into the undesirable witch-hunt, it is possible to say that "the search failed" without that being an insult to anyone and then look at the reasons why the search failed i.e. the boat was there somewhere, the planes were up with whatever equipment they had, was this the best job that could have been done or is there something we could learn?

 

Now maybe you'll say: "yep but the place for that is not crew.org and they won't be asking you Murky" and that's fine.

[Clipper 343]

Paddy O, I fully agree. This guy wasn't in regular contact, and didn't call for help. I think the SAR response was just fine.

[Guest]

....maybe the dog did it ?

 

the only 2 thoughts i keep having are

 

1)was he wearing a harness ?

2)if he had a plb could he have been found ?

 

I dont really have much sympathy for people that dont keep regular position updates and dont use the lattest safety equipment.

 

dont expect search and rescue to bust out the new "needle in a haystack finder" when you go missing from somewhere, sometime, several days ago.

[Guest]

Well Paddy, I have respect for your input and agree with a number of your points about the likelihood of survival having gone over the side.

 

The part that troubles me is that an 11m steel-hulled yacht, upright, with rig intact and sails up and a brightly-coloured kayak on deck, was not "find-able" until too late. I readily acknowledge that a lack of information about the whereabouts did not help but some of the explanations offered up around that time were that the boat wasn't there to be found because it had sunk.

 

My view is that, without descending into the undesirable witch-hunt, it is possible to say that without that being an insult to anyone and then look at the reasons why the search failed i.e. the boat was there somewhere, the planes were up with whatever equipment they had, was this the best job that could have been done or is there something we could learn?

 

Now maybe you'll say: "yep but the place for that is not crew.org and they won't be asking you Murky" and that's fine.

 

Hear what you are saying Murky, the problem is that much of the tone is what went wrong from the authorities' point of view.

 

The real issue is what went wrong from the yachties point of view.

In a nutshell, by being at sea on his own he has put himself at extraordinary risk.

 

The reason the search failed is in that he was at sea alone.

Nobody knew he had fallen over board and / or when.

There was no regular phone or radio sched set up.

 

Simple as that.

 

SAR is generally only successful when they have some good information to go on.

 

Steve Fossetts SAR operation is a pretty good example of what can go wrong (different medium of course)

[Grinna 2]

I think anyone who goes sailing, either coastal passages or blue water, and truly expects that SAR, Coastguard, the Navy or whoever will have their back and be able to save them if anything goes wrong has the wrong attitude. As far as I'm concerned, if I'm out there, then its up to me to sort things out. I didn't know Mr van Rensburg, but I suspect that anyone who is prepared to sail solo on a coastal passage would have a similar outlook. He didn't have regular radio scheds and maybe he wasn't expected to have any trouble, but as a seasoned sailor with a lot of experience he would almost certainly know that trouble sometimes comes to find you and out there you're on your own. I'd be very surprised if Mr van Rensburg wasn't fully aware of the risks and accepted them anyway.

 

Sadly, it looks on the face of it to be a case of a sailor lost over the side. Even with regular scheds and an immediate, thorough and enthusiastic search effort I suspect that the result would be pretty much the same. While it is disappointing that the boat wasn't found earlier, it is extremely difficult to find a small target in a huge area of ocean.

 

I don't think playing the blame game here, and pointing the finger at SAR in particular, is going to produce any positive results.

[Guest]

If he did go over the side when that Friday night front hit, SAR were already two days too late to start seaching for him on the Monday.

PLB and lifejacket were the only safety devices that were of any use to him once he was in the water.

 

An update on xtra homepage mentions RCC were looking for a drifting boat, not one with sails still up.

IMO there is no way they could reliably predict where the vessel would be 3-5 days after the likely event, if the vessel was still under sail.

The shoreline search is the only part of the search that wouldn't be needle in a haystack variety.

This may be why they covered a large area of ocean using radar, not visual searching.

 

Very sobering tragedy for anyone contemplating sailing alone.

[Guest Rocket]

Agree Paddy

 

Many of the lives lost in our waters have come down to not enough helmsman or experience on board - it is a choice you make when you go out alone or with an inexperienced companion.

 

I don't believe you could last 2 days with a pdf in those water temperatures - maybe in a survival suit. This is not about SAR, this is about a guy that was doing what he loved and had an accident. Sad but not a "failure" of anything.

[Steve Pope 243]

For me the lesson is that you and you alone are responsible for your life, the degree of "risk" you take is proportionate to what you feel you are capable of handling, It would be a very rare occasion that a solo sailor hasn't taken appropriate steps to secure his safety, given that, as in this case something catastrophic occurred that was outside of "his" control.

PLB's, Epirbs, reporting departure etc. etc. may make you feel safer, but may give a sense of "false" security. The Rescue people are i'm sure dedicated to their job, I don't question the fact that theirs is an uphill battle and that their successes are accepted as "thats their job" and their failures are often critically dissected to the nnth degree. To be self reliant and use common sense is critical, unfortunately with society placing more and more reliance on others coming to our rescue those abilities are being lost.