Round New Zealand Two Handed

[Battleship 100]

Agreed it does seem like alot of effort to pull out but i'm sure they all had their own reasons, and without being in their position we will never know, the raw stats don't show the true story

 

Yes it would be good for someone who has done a RNZ to weigh with some advice.

[Grinna 2]

I think its a bit simplistic to say that all boats that pulled out did so because they weren't properly prepared.

 

One boat pulled out because one of the crew was injured (and it was believed to be a pretty frickin serious injury to start with ... thankfully turned out to be not quite so serious as first thought). The way to prepare for crew injury is to have more crew .... pretty hard to do when its a 2 handed race.

 

Dismastings can occur no matter how well prepared the boat is. You could argue that if the mast came down the boat wasn't properly prepared, but dismastings can occur with brand new rigging .... how can you be more prepared than that?? If rig inspections showed things to be hunky dorey then you have to believe that things are hunky dorey .... otherwise you'd be re-rigging before every major race ... and that still may not prevent a dismasting.

 

Keel issues that develop as a result of dropping the boat off waves or hitting something in the water .... how do you prepare for that??? If the keel appears to be fine do you completely replace all keel bolts and re-engineer the attachment of the keel to the hull just in case?

 

Pretty easy to get the wrong idea from looking at statistics alone.

[Dr Dave 5]

I think that making comments on a race that you haven't done ( maybe you have?) is fraught with hazard. I assume that your intentions are to promote fleet safety, but people are always going to state "didn't see you there", "if you know so much why don't you do it" etc and you risk coming across as a tool

 

With this as a preamble , we should be looking at things that we can do better

!. Can the boats be better prepared?

2. Can the crew be better prepared?

3. Can the Committee do a better job

 

They all had to do a 500 mile qualifyer - should it be longer? You may sail a 1000 miles to qualify and not have the same conditions. Time together is what is important in my view

All of the boats seemed prepared before the race began

The committee were EXCELLENT throughout the race

 

I disagree with the comments regarding bigger boats having an easier time.

I have completed two RNI races (both with Craig Partridge) now - one in a small boat (30 foot Ross - Blackout) and the 2011 race in a 45 foot Ross ( M1) and do not agree that the bigger boats have an easier time.

Yes bigger boats generally go faster ( exception is Karma Police - brilliantly designed and sailed), but the bigger boats are MUCH harder work.

Our auto pilot on M1 couldn't cope in more than about 5 knots of air so changing headsails ( on a foil) on your own was a mission. Dragging a sail from below to the bow and hoisting was tough when it was blowing over 30 knots.

Similarly hoisting/dropping/packing a big chute on your own is pretty hard going

 

We found the bigger boat much harder work over all

 

On the leg to Wellington which had most withdrawals - the bigger boats did miss out on the big Southerly which knocked a few boats out and made a few seek shelter temporarily. But on the 4th leg once around East Cape the small boats all caught up as we were becalmed So swings and Roundabouts

 

In my view the Round NZ race will be much harder than Round North Island and we wont be doing it in M1 - in an easier boat to sail - yes, but not this brute

Boats and crews will need to be well prepared for this race and before you ask yes I have sailed there ( but not raced) before.

 

My two cents worth

[Battleship 100]

A very well reasoned Response Dr Dave,

for the record I wasn't saying that the bigger boats were easier to sail ( I can only imagine what a beast M1 must be to sail two up) but simply, as you alluded to, that the faster boats had slightly better weather on the west coast leg.

Agree that the committee was fantastic and very professonal thoughout the whole event and I can't think of what else they could do to improve things. There is already a fairly comprehensive list of requirements to get through before crews and boats are accepted.

I think this is a very special event that us mere mortals can compete in and being two up is a great leveler.

I am looking foward to the RNZ with a healthy level of trepidation and are far from expecting it to be a walk in the park, but life would be pretty boring if we weren't allowed to challenge ourselves beacause someone decided that some boats playing it safe meant they weren't sufficiently prepared.

[Jon 360]

I see that a Class 40 has just entered !

Anyone know anything ?

[Guest]

Rhys Boulton of Christchurch

How exciting.

[Jon 360]

Question for you lot,

 

How many people have raced around New Zealand ?

 

Probably thousands have raced to the Pacific Islands.

 

But ?

[Guest]

14, 12 made it

[Guest]

Dragging a sail from below to the bow and hoisting was tough when it was blowing over 30 knots.

Similarly hoisting/dropping/packing a big chute on your own is pretty hard going

 

We found the bigger boat much harder work over all

 

Which highlights a different issue...

 

Do you do a race like this:

 

( a ) in a boat which you usually fleet race or sail fully crewed, because the short handed adventure appeals but the budget doesn't stretch to getting a boat designed/set up specifically for it;

 

or

 

( b ) do you design and build (or convert) a boat specifically for short handed sailing? e.g. multiple furling headsails from Code 0 down to heavy airs working jib, like the Class 40s/Imoca 60's/solo maxi-multis use?

 

In New Zealand I think (generalising) that most of our short handed campaigns use a primarily option ( a ) approach, with some perhaps doing a bit of option ( b ) - ifying.

 

Around New Zealand 2 handed is a significant undertaking. It's a big race and it's in some (likely) big conditions. In Europe a lot (but not all) of the big short handed races are done in boats specifically set up for short handed racing. Perhaps, if you are serious about trying to win* the Round NZ two handed race you should be thinking about a dedicated short handed set-up?

 

* Note: I am difinitely not saying that option ( a ) campaigns should not be allowed. I am not even saying they should not be encouraged... if people are attracted by the adventure and the challenge then great...

 

but basing a position about smaller versus bigger on things like the difficulty of hauling sails up onto the foredeck isn't really a fair way to do the comparison, in my opinion. It IS a fair way of comparing smaller versus larger boats which are still primarily set up for fully crewed racing, but that is only a subset of the smaller versus larger comparison. For a full evaluation you need to compare a small 'set up for short handed' boat versus a large 'set up for short handed' boat. (multiple headsails on furlers, off the wind sails with retrieval systems on electric winches etc.)

 

I think most if not all of the boats that did the RNI were very very well prepared. The crews that we met in Wellington were absolutely not treating it like a coastal race. Observations based on withdrawl statistics, like the ones made, are not worth responding to in my opinion.

[Guest]

Any more news of interested parties thinking of entering?

This time last year there was a waiting list for round north island.

Obviously this is a lot more of a challenge but there seem to be a few people holding back from entering.

 

Truxton is actually set up for single /2 handed sailing and is not ideal when you get 4 other people in the way but doesn't stop us sailing with crew.

Luckily for me when I got hurt last time it was easily sailed by 1 person to get us home.

 

I dont think there would be a lot of point trying to campaign a imoca 60 / open 40 etc against the Nz fleet.

 

It would be like TVS racing 8.5's. Ya know the result before you write the check.

I look forward to trying to keep revs and the other 40fters honest.

[Guest]

I dont think there would be a lot of point trying to campaign a imoca 60 / open 40 etc against the Nz fleet.

 

Just to be clear, that's not what I was suggesting.

[Dr Dave 5]

Hi Bardy,

There are VERY few people who can afford a truly two handed boat in NZ.

In the RNI , from memory I think only Andar was truly set up for two handing.

Personally I would love one of Rob's (Shaw) 40's set up for 2 handing

This being the case most people ( like us) compromise with a fully crewed boat.

Our biggest problem was the Autopilot not being able to handle her in more than 5 knots which made it more of a mission

Cheers

[Guest]

Yep, I appreciate that reality.

 

The fact remains however that things like lugging headsails up onto the foredeck is actually a choice crews make (even if it is forced bue to budget contraints)... the other option does still exist - to set up with multiple furlers (as opposed to building an IMOCA60 or Class40 etc. - you can just implement similar systems on existing boats as part of your conversion for 2 handed set up).

 

So, my point was, when comparing the ease of doing the race ( a ) on a smaller boat, or ( b ) on a bigger boat the extra energy expended to lug headsails up onto the foredeck (for example) does not HAVE to be part of the equation for assessing how easy it is to do the race 'on a bigger boat'. You can do it on a bigger boat without having to do so... if you set the boat up accordingly.

 

Additionally I was observing that with RNZ bigger and longer and tougher than RNI that the relative return on investing in short handed systems is likely to be greater... so the reward to effort ratio is tilted more in favour of setting up a boat more towards the dedicated short handed systems end of the spectrum.

 

And yeah, I love a dedicated Shaw 40 set up for 2 handed racing too...

[Jon 360]

Been following what your saying bardy and totally agree

I am currently setting up Danaide under IRC as single furling headsail with heavy weather jib plus a reaching kite on a separate furler

 

This will mean we only have to change headsails at + or - 30kts

so I guess watch this space

 

or get a boat and join in

[Guest]

or get a boat and join in

 

I'd love to, but for now my involvement will have to be restricted to support crew for Team Clear Vision, and helping with the in port activities RPNYC contribute.

 

Unless someone wants a big good keen crew...

[Jon 360]

We are not planning on stopping at Wellywood this time

But you never know.

[Guest]

We've been hunting for a boat and sussed a couple but they were all set-up for a full crew, knot 2 handed. Sadly as this isn't a race that can be taken that lightly it would mean we would want to chop and channel these boats a bit for the race, something neither we nor their owners we over the moon about.

 

If you short hand a lot it is way easier to set the boat up to suit that. I have with me baby Ross so even solo the boat is pretty gentle on the crew, which is very good and ultimately a lot safer as well. During its re-tweak it'll be even more set-up for only one or 2 crew, yes we are moving the beer fridge aft more

 

Mind you with boats like mine a full crew is 2 people and 4 lumps of railmeat anyway.

 

I have asked for a C950 or a C40 for Daddies day. All going well our entry will be placed the following day. But all going as expected and I'll have more socks..... or maybe something motorbike associated, D2 can't whisper at all well

[splashprincess 16]

We are not planning on stopping at Wellywood this time

But you never know.

 

 

And we didn't think anyone would be stopping in New Plymouth in the RNI either

 

So we will be prepared here in Welly for any visitors, plus have the Naki crew on standby as well.

[Guest]

I've been working on getting some details on a very interesting short handed design that Ray Beale has on the go, cheap, light and very interesting, would suit KM to the soles of his little feet.

[Guest]

Sure that's not the whale chaser launch Mike Pearce is building..........