Nav lights

[PaulR 3]

Those aldis look like an awesome piece of kit http://www.safety-marine.co.uk/searchlights-and-torches/aldis-fsp127-(mkv)-signalling-lamp-(solas-approved)-aldis.htm?p5731-s33- sounds like you were lucky you had one.

I suppose they are common kit for boats crossing the Channel tho?

 

Yes several of the boats including Admirals Cup yachts all had them, nearly always by the hatchway, permanently wired to main batteries. In the boats we built, they were a standard item from memory for 36ft to 57ft and above.

None of that messing about with cigarette lighter type connections that need cleaning before a reliable contact was made.

These worked First and everytime.

 

By comparison, our sailing in NZ with 30 mile visibility most of the time is wonderful, so we all keep our torches safely below, nice and dry. ready for next safety inspection.

 

Arn't we so lucky here

[PaulR 3]

Thanks for the link.

Yes 60W is bright, especially with a reflector type bulb and the concave focusing mirror at the back.

[Guest]

Won't a white flare do the trick?

[idlerboat 116]

I put LEDs in my other boat nearly ten years ago.

At the time and since I have been looking at the legal requirement and more important if it is going to to stand up in a court of law.

To that end I had corresondence with an English Queens counsel who was directly involved with maritime legislation and litigation.

 

He quite clearly stated that you cannot prove that a boats lights where faulty if she was on the bottom.

Further, there is clear mention of the use of of kerosine lanterns as nav lights. As such as the "burn" changes so will the colour and intensity. This means that as long as "good intent" is the starting point then it is up to the insurance company to prove non complience.

Further...he stated that no one to his knowlege had ever chalenged this in court, and was hopping that they would so he could blow them out of the water.

 

Complience is usualy an American thing...AND only relates to comercial vessels. all else is NOT mandatory...it is put up as such , but is not the case. I have found this also in the case of the layout and electrical components of a diesel instalation.

 

When you read the fine print.......

 

The reason why I am stating all this is simple...

When I started with my LEDs few others had.....I supposed that a flat battery aand NO lights...was far worse than a so called non complience....

The so called regs are very exact . A piece of bird sh*t on a lense will make a light non compliant. (It will change both the intensity and the colour spectrum).

From my legal advice...until they get rid of the right to have kerosine lanterns in the regs....the insurance companies cannot argue with "Good intent".

 

Finaly which is where I started all those years ago...I wanted to be seen. All the time...every night. or a vessel to impact you means they must be "very close".......col regs will take over from there...

 

TRI colour versus ??????

Have you guys read the lights rules ?

 

AS A SAILING BOAT YOU CAN CARRY A RED OVER GREEN ALL OVER ;;;;AS WELL;;;;AS YOUR NORMAL DECK LIGHTS.

 

I do it...it is the best of both worlds....if you have ever sailed at night....think of this...

you see a red and green...it means that the boat is heading straight at you.....so you bare away......no matter what quater...until you see the deck lights, you see red and green....

It is the right of sailing boats to run this (It was even in my licences test)....

So get rid of your tri...put up a red over green WITH deck lights....

 

You cant buy them...I had to make mine....which brings me back to where I started.

 

Your choice ...be seen first (and comply to the essence of the law) OR be parranoid and think that the insurance companies are going to dump you after your boat is on the bottom.

 

 

and just as a ps in case. my intent is always to do the most to be visible (as my previous words) to always within the colregs to be seen.

[wheels 543]

AS A SAILING BOAT YOU CAN CARRY A RED OVER GREEN ALL OVER ;;;;AS WELL;;;;AS YOUR NORMAL DECK LIGHTS.

If you are meaning "All Round", that is for under 7m boats.

[Farrari 4]

AS A SAILING BOAT YOU CAN CARRY A RED OVER GREEN ALL OVER ;;;;AS WELL;;;;AS YOUR NORMAL DECK LIGHTS.

If you are meaning "All Round", that is for under 7m boats.

 

An all round white light is for vessels under 7m in length. I think idlerboat is talking about red over green all round lights with optional sidelights.

[rigger 47]

AS A SAILING BOAT YOU CAN CARRY A RED OVER GREEN ALL OVER ;;;;AS WELL;;;;AS YOUR NORMAL DECK LIGHTS.

If you are meaning "All Round", that is for under 7m boats.

 

An all round white light is for vessels under 7m in length. I think idlerboat is talking about red over green all round lights with optional sidelights.

 

If you see Soren Larsen at night under sail she carries the red over green.

 

 

Rule 25

Sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;

(ii) a sternlight.

( In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.

© A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph ( of this Rule.(d) (i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or ( of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

(ii) A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.

 

and the vertical spacing

 

(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:

(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 4 metres above the hull;

(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 2 metres above the gunwale;

(iii) when three lights are carried they shall be equally spaced.

[PaulR 3]

Won't a white flare do the trick?

 

It should work, but once only

 

That is why the Aldis is so effective. You can AIM it directly at the ship's bridge.

 

Pistol & rifle shots can sometimes break the windows in a bridge which can then sometimes waken the sole helmsman / lookout.

 

It is quite hard, but a well thrown lighted flare on to the bridge wings or better into the wheel house proper, generally creates an action filled scene.

 

The YNZ Safety Regs have 1 x white hand held flare for anti collision.

Great but is one enough

 

Yes they also have 2 waterproof torches and recommend a spotlight.

 

IHMO in busy shipping lanes, an Aldis targetted flashing light wins hands down, in daylight as well as fog.

 

FWIW, Having been nearly run down by a big bulk carrier in the Atlantic near the equator in the becalmed midday sun on a yacht without any motoring ability (broken prop system), a rifle would be more effective than a pistol. We could see nobody on the bridge, but it would of been an interesting explanation to Head Office / Customs / Police / Pilot as to how and why the bridge windows were shot away.

[Guest]

After Spending many trips dodging sail boats aboard a tug and barge unit.The one thing that realy helps those on the bridge is at night if you are in the proxminity of shipping, is flash a torch lite over your sails.Often lights are hard to see however when you light up your sails you draw attention easier as well as identify your self.I use this trick up and down the coast,often for fizz boats.

[PaulR 3]

After Spending many trips dodging sail boats aboard a tug and barge unit.The one thing that realy helps those on the bridge is at night if you are in the proxminity of shipping, is flash a torch lite over your sails.Often lights are hard to see however when you light up your sails you draw attention easier as well as identify your self.I use this trick up and down the coast,often for fizz boats.

 

 

Agreed and always do first. However, if no percieved change of course in the ship is observed, what do you do next

 

An Aldis on the sails is very good but also very blinding for your helmsman and crew, when it bounces off sails, fiberglass deck, windows, mast & spars. Hence the Aldis aimed at the bridge works and an ordinary torch onto the sails.

 

Then whats the next choice

 

White Flare

 

Now What

 

[PaulR 3]

After Spending many trips dodging sail boats aboard a tug and barge unit.The one thing that realy helps those on the bridge is at night if you are in the proxminity of shipping, is flash a torch lite over your sails.Often lights are hard to see however when you light up your sails you draw attention easier as well as identify your self.I use this trick up and down the coast,often for fizz boats.

 

Agreed. One trip from Cherbourg to UK, there was a MASSIVE drilling "A" frame rig that was latter to be sunk to turn it to stand on it's legs.(Think of a giant step ladder, and multiply by 1,000 times. It was much bigger than the QM2, more like the length of the harbour bridge.)

 

It was being towed on its side up the channel, by 5 BIG tugs, each tug about the size of the Navy's Canterbury / interisland / Cook Strait ferries, plus at least another 10 small tugs, lineboats, warning boats etc about the size of our AKL tug boats, pushing the rig sideways and or pushing the big tugs into alignment / spread out fan formation. A most impressive sight indeed.

 

We gave way

[Grinna 2]

The YNZ Safety Regs have 1 x white hand held flare for anti collision.

Great but is one enough

 

I think you'll find that one white flare is a minimum requirement. There's nothing to stop you from carrying more than one. I would suggest that 1 white flare in the flare pack and at least 1 more in the cockpit - close to hand for when a collision situation arises.

[PaulR 3]

Agreed Grinna.

Perhaps this is an arguement to have a very pistol with 20+ white rounds.

 

Then again the Aldis will do 1,000+ ships, as long as the batteries last.

[Guest]

After Spending many trips dodging sail boats aboard a tug and barge unit.The one thing that realy helps those on the bridge is at night if you are in the proxminity of shipping, is flash a torch lite over your sails.Often lights are hard to see however when you light up your sails you draw attention easier as well as identify your self.I use this trick up and down the coast,often for fizz boats.

 

 

Agreed and always do first. However, if no percieved change of course in the ship is observed, what do you do next

 

An Aldis on the sails is very good but also very blinding for your helmsman and crew, when it bounces off sails, fiberglass deck, windows, mast & spars. Hence the Aldis aimed at the bridge works and an ordinary torch onto the sails.

 

Then whats the next choice

 

White Flare

 

Now What

 

 

One must always keep in mind that it is up to each or all skippers to avoid a collision. If you are on a collision course and the other boat makes no alteration of course,It's up to you. A radio call is often appriciated by the bridge.If there is no one on the bridge it dont matter what you do to attract attention it aint going to get the other boat to move.So you better do the moving.

[Guest]

I think this is where AIS should be great. Get the callsign. Don't have one myself as yet but I see the prices are dropping.

[PaulR 3]

After Spending many trips dodging sail boats aboard a tug and barge unit.The one thing that realy helps those on the bridge is at night if you are in the proxminity of shipping, is flash a torch lite over your sails.Often lights are hard to see however when you light up your sails you draw attention easier as well as identify your self.I use this trick up and down the coast,often for fizz boats.

 

 

Agreed and always do first. However, if no percieved change of course in the ship is observed, what do you do next

 

An Aldis on the sails is very good but also very blinding for your helmsman and crew, when it bounces off sails, fiberglass deck, windows, mast & spars. Hence the Aldis aimed at the bridge works and an ordinary torch onto the sails.

 

Then whats the next choice

 

White Flare

 

Now What

 

 

One must always keep in mind that it is up to each or all skippers to avoid a collision. If you are on a collision course and the other boat makes no alteration of course,It's up to you. A radio call is often appriciated by the bridge.If there is no one on the bridge it dont matter what you do to attract attention it aint going to get the other boat to move.So you better do the moving.

 

We could NOT move, becalmed, engineless, unable to sail, unable to motor, unable to row, no oars, no dinghy's, no outboards

=> Yeap NOTHING

 

So what would you suggest then.

 

Read back earlier posts => It was midday, noon hot sun.

 

[PaulR 3]

I think this is where AIS should be great. Get the callsign. Don't have one myself as yet but I see the prices are dropping.

 

I was reading that with an AIS receiver, the data can be wired to appear on the GPS Chartplotter as well. So you may have to save up for a new GPS Chartplotter as well. Also appears as radar overlay on plotter.

[Island Time 1,235]

AIS is great.

Get a transponder, not just a receiver. We have had multiple occasions of large vessels altering course to avoid us, way before they could have seen the nav lights, without any radio or signal of any sort. If it's close, we have had ships call us (by Name and callsign!!!) to make sure we both agree on what should happen. One ship called from 50 miles!!!

 

In the singapore straits last year we had 267 ships on screen, all moving. AIS lets us filter for only those who pose a collision risk (with setable range). We still had 30!! All data is given, speed, course, CPA, Time to CPA, Bearing, etc. We transmitt that to the ships as well. All info is displayed on the plotter (Laptop with screen repeated in cockpit), graphically as an overlay and also as data in the Nav window. Works a treat!! Well worth the money is your going to do any offshore work.

[Guest]

I think a standalone AIS is the go for me because then don't need the chartplotter going all the time. Just another boat buck.

[wheels 543]

IT what kind of Dollars are we talking for transponder type AIS ??