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I have and still do sit on committees and go to meetings and AGM's and have found YNZ are willing to try and do anything almost to get more people sailing, but unless we let them know what we want and that we are not happy it's only natural to assume all is well. Some clubs don't even return surveys FFS.

 

:

Sorry this is the last word for me :crazy:

 

Its not for the Yacht club members (spread around the country) to make the decisions on how to improve the sport (national plan)! Its up to the leaders (whom get the big bucks) to start leadinYacht club commitees can feed info to YNZ, just like the public can feed the Government, but at the end of the day its the leaders (YNZ (Govt) that have to make the calls!

 

With responsibility, title, and huge pay packets, comes Actions and accountability.

 

Imagine Grant Dalton in charge of YNZ. He would "kick arse", "re boot the whole system", fire the "hangers on" and "get things rolling!

 

Its about having some BAlls to change for improvement!

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Q Class = 12ft Skiff = 34 of then sailing on Akl harbour today = the biggest fleet in easy a decade.... there abouts. Looking bloody good too so get up somewhere and suss them today before they all go home. 11 and 2pm starts I believe.

 

Mind you a whack of those are Aussies and won't be here next week but that class is very much alive and well in NZ. Also the 18's are more active today than a decade ago, but a lot of those are the same 12fter guys swapping boats for the weekend. Big growth and I think there is plenty more still to come shortly in the rafts. Those Pluto's things, 12 now being used but weren't a few years back. Oh and Coaching boats, big increase in that fleet over the last few years. ORMA 60 Class in Akl now when there wasn't last year ;)

 

Oh Under 26ft racing, some decent sizes fleets there and some very hard fought battles. That has got many boats racing that wasn't. All totally the brainchild of a couple of blokes on their lonesome who pushed it hard with great results.

 

But there is a distinct trend, 'shift' as Markm suggested, towards quick beer can racing over the longer more technical type of races. Good to get people on the water but you can only go up and down Akl harbour so many times before you go screaming knuts.

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I do have to congratulate you lot, this is the first time we've had a discussion along these lines that has stayed on course and readable.

 

It is interesting that your opinion of where the sport stands depends on where you are standing (Einstein knew all about this). And of course this makes it difficult to get an overall picture.

 

I know the sort of racing I liked most is in the dead/dying category, so do I rail against that or go cruising? (Example: the only race left that I really wanted to do in this country was the Solo Trans Tasman. Hence my interest in the 650's. Now it looks like that whole idea is about to die, and yes it was the money, and yes the new costs for iso cert may just be the straw that broke the camel's back. We did have, might still have, 4 strong contenders to build one).

 

So if I go decide on the cruising option, has NZ yachting failed me or am I just a dinosaur who can't keep up with the times?

 

 

 

 

PS Paddy, I 100% do not accept your argument that I can't express a contrary opiniion if I don't join a committee.

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Here's another unrelated thought. In the USA I used to comment on how the boats in NZ were much better maintained and loved, in general. Yesterday while waiting for AA to show up I went for a wander down the dock and that just isn't true anymore, lots of tragic unloved boats around and/or european pop outs.

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Gee?... By AA i hope you mean the Automobile Ass and not the "failed Drinkers (or maye be successfull) club"

 

Aye Aye :lol:

 

and KM. yes there are 34x 12 ft'rs racing. But wait till next season and see howmany are on the water. Big events will bring the boats out just like big prize money

 

and Squid your right about the floating wrecks. But i'm not talking about it anymore OK.

 

 

Time will tell!

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Gee?... By AA i hope you mean the Automobile Ass and not the "failed Drinkers (or maye be successfull) club"

 

Aye Aye :lol:

 

and KM. yes there are 34x 12 ft'rs racing. But wait till next season and see howmany are on the water. Big events will bring the boats out just like big prize money

 

and Squid your right about the floating wrecks. But i'm not talking about it anymore OK.

 

 

Time will tell!

 

 

Since you cant edit this thread...

 

What is YNZ's "mission / position statement"?...

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Sorry STS, I'm just not close enough and don't have any info on the dinghy classes to comment. think the N25s had 20+ at their last nats in Rotorua, also fairly sure the numbers fluctuate quite a bit depending on where they are. Agreed though that TY sailing, with a few regional exceptions, has died in the North Island. Examples I'd given info on were all mentioned earlier in the thread, which was why I used them.

 

Disagree with your top versus bottom comment, using the government as an example, if you want something done, DIY, if you specifically want to see it screwed up, palming it off onto the government is one of the better tactics to achieve that. Sorry, just don't go the "government should do it" thing, for sailing, if enough do their bit then we go somewhere, we don't need plans, I'd actually bet that if there was an intensive structured top down push people would just complain they're being dictated to.

 

Speaking of which, time for me to go sailing for a while.

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My criticism of YNZ wasn't personal, it was at the structure and the perverse way that the funding base is driving the organisation into committing its time, energy and resources into the elite end of our sport. But you also gotta say that professional administrators and governanace at the level of YNZ should never be above revue or criticism.

 

You could also say that they have been incredibly succesful in meeting their imperative of achieving that gold in Beijing, although from where I sit it is the athletes that win the medals and not the administrators.

 

At the volunteer level of our sport I don't think there is a sport the comes even close to getting the support and commitment yachting gets from its volunteer base, particularly at junior level the sport would simply not function without this level of volunteer commitment (this is also a weakness of course and you hear of parents who will not now get involved because it is the end of their golf/fishing/weekends etc, for us we have made liflelong friends and have benefitted far more than we have given from our involvement in the sport.

 

as to the old chestnut of the glass half full well I guess I'm more into lets have the thing overflowing and then double the glass and overflow that.

 

 

Mark's stats were kinda interesting, more in the way they were presented and Mark Twain springs to mind. The other interesting thing about the current hot spots of activity outside of the keelboat scene, OK's, PT's, Multi's, Skiffs, Zephurs...have a look at the average age of those fleets (all power to those guys) but tell me we are inspiring the youth and even the under 45's into staying in the sport.

 

YNZ is charged with caring for our sport, building the base, providing pathways and links through the classes and giving life to all sectors, the clubs, from the elite to the club sailor to the 8 year old having the joy of sailing his own opti, to the participants, the contributors and the volunteers.

 

How does the scorecard look?

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Gee?... By AA i hope you mean the Automobile Ass and not the "failed Drinkers (or maye be successfull) club"

 

Aye Aye :lol:

 

and KM. yes there are 34x 12 ft'rs racing. But wait till next season and see howmany are on the water. Big events will bring the boats out just like big prize money

 

and Squid your right about the floating wrecks. But i'm not talking about it anymore OK.

 

 

Time will tell!

 

 

Since you cant edit this thread...

 

What is YNZ's "mission / position statement"?...

 

Don't know about a mission statement but their constitution contains some interesting info on what they are about.

You can download it here http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/CMSContent.aspx?PageID=f862548b-7a2a-48db-befb-fbc2be908e6f

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I think this is what you are after

 

Article 2 – Objects

The objects of Yachting New Zealand are:

2.1 To promote, organise, administer and represent yachting and boating on a national and

international basis.

2.2 To promote and control the representation of New Zealand yachts and sailors at

international regattas and Olympic Games.

2.3 To maintain its status as a Full Member of the International Sailing Federation Limited

(“ISAF”) by virtue of being the National Authority for New Zealand.

2.4 To recognise and support ISAF by:

(a) promoting the objects, interests and influence of ISAF;

(B) carrying out and respecting ISAF’s rules, regulations and decisions;

© refraining, and using reasonable endeavours to persuade others within Yachting

New Zealand’s jurisdiction to refrain, from actions that are inconsistent with ISAF’s

objects, rules, regulations and decisions.

 

 

 

Wonder what happens when 2.1 conflicts with 2.3

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Disagree with your top versus bottom comment, using the government as an example, if you want something done, DIY, if you specifically want to see it screwed up, palming it off onto the government is one of the better tactics to achieve that. Sorry, just don't go the "government should do it" thing, for sailing, if enough do their bit then we go somewhere, we don't need plans, I'd actually bet that if there was an intensive structured top down push people would just complain they're being dictated to.

 

Speaking of which, time for me to go sailing for a while.

 

MarkM. My Govt comment was a comparison. What i was trying to purvey was that the YNZ hierachy are the ultimate Gaurdians and leaders of the sport and they should lead the sport going forward. The clubs should feed the YNZ the "feeling / issues / and obstacles" they face so as to get resolution and a basis for a "plan" for the future. (just like the public develop referendum's to the GOVT to action.

 

CLubs do not have the Time, professionals, and legal responsibility to change anything in the rules / constitution. That is why the pay YNZ the levi's.

 

The Govt should not be involved in our sport until YNZ has either gone bankrupt of fails in it "Mission statement" :wink:

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My criticism of YNZ wasn't personal, it was at the structure and the perverse way that the funding base is driving the organisation into committing its time, energy and resources into the elite end of our sport. But you also gotta say that professional administrators and governanace at the level of YNZ should never be above revue or criticism.

 

You could also say that they have been incredibly succesful in meeting their imperative of achieving that gold in Beijing, although from where I sit it is the athletes that win the medals and not the administrators.

 

At the volunteer level of our sport I don't think there is a sport the comes even close to getting the support and commitment yachting gets from its volunteer base, particularly at junior level the sport would simply not function without this level of volunteer commitment (this is also a weakness of course and you hear of parents who will not now get involved because it is the end of their golf/fishing/weekends etc, for us we have made liflelong friends and have benefitted far more than we have given from our involvement in the sport.

 

as to the old chestnut of the glass half full well I guess I'm more into lets have the thing overflowing and then double the glass and overflow that.

 

 

Mark's stats were kinda interesting, more in the way they were presented and Mark Twain springs to mind. The other interesting thing about the current hot spots of activity outside of the keelboat scene, OK's, PT's, Multi's, Skiffs, Zephurs...have a look at the average age of those fleets (all power to those guys) but tell me we are inspiring the youth and even the under 45's into staying in the sport.

 

YNZ is charged with caring for our sport, building the base, providing pathways and links through the classes and giving life to all sectors, the clubs, from the elite to the club sailor to the 8 year old having the joy of sailing his own opti, to the participants, the contributors and the volunteers.

 

How does the scorecard look?

 

 

I don't think we have a score card. But if we did i think we have triple bogie'd every hole!

 

And i also agree with the Half Glass comment too!. In my case i do not have a half empty of half Full Glass!. Mines always full!

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I think this is what you are after

 

Article 2 – Objects

The objects of Yachting New Zealand are:

2.1 To promote, organise, administer and represent yachting and boating on a national and

international basis.

2.2 To promote and control the representation of New Zealand yachts and sailors at

international regattas and Olympic Games.

2.3 To maintain its status as a Full Member of the International Sailing Federation Limited

(“ISAF”) by virtue of being the National Authority for New Zealand.

2.4 To recognise and support ISAF by:

(a) promoting the objects, interests and influence of ISAF;

(B) carrying out and respecting ISAF’s rules, regulations and decisions;

© refraining, and using reasonable endeavours to persuade others within Yachting

New Zealand’s jurisdiction to refrain, from actions that are inconsistent with ISAF’s

objects, rules, regulations and decisions.

 

 

 

Wonder what happens when 2.1 conflicts with 2.3

 

Well well well! This is exactly what marshy and i/others have been saying!

 

Their emphasis is on...

 

sucking up to ISAF. Thus the tornado decision

 

Look after the International sailors and regattas.

 

Do what ISAF says and never argue with them. (even if it compromises NZ sailing)

 

never question ISAF

 

and ,...

 

The thing they do the least of...

 

To promote, organise, administer and represent yachting and boating on a national basis :wtf:

 

When will that happen!?

 

it looks like they have failed to meet there own Constitution!...

 

May be a vote of "no confidence" is required.

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Me thinks the YNZ knows it is to difficult for the yacht clubs and sailors to get together and vote these "mediocre sport Administrators" out of thier positions and thus can "work and rule beyond reproach"!

 

"the doors are closed and the light burns slowly out"!

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Read the YNZ strategic plan thing and they are doing what they say they want too.

 

Olympics rate urgent and of high importance/ value, the highest on both on the scale given.

Where growing participation is high on urgency but of low importance and/or value.

 

That's what their declared goals are so we can't complain about what they are doing as that is what we are seeing. Interesting read actually and I think what we are seeing is exactly what the plan seems to be suggesting they want. Bit hard to work out in places as it is one very PC written document. Full of pathways going forward for the stakeholders in strategic goals to meet compass points, sort of thing.

 

Oh and yachts people aren't stakeholders of YNZ. Clubs and Class Associations are along with 11 others.

 

So to change the track you need to change the plan. And it looks like you need to be on a committee somewhere to make that happen.

 

They do have elections I'm guessing so start campaigning now I'd suggest.

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Oh and yachts people aren't stakeholders of YNZ. .

 

Eh!... if the pay yacht club fee's they are!

 

its obvious YNZ set a easy "SPARC" focused plan and have thier priorities wrong.

 

If Dalts was in charge he would have a more holostic view and quickly focus on "what ould grow the sport, help the clubs and grow the depth / income!

 

It ain't rocket science!.

 

i believe this lot take the "path well travelled" and get the same View at the end of it.

 

Who, other than me, marsh, a few others, and this site, challenges them?

 

just remember you reap what you sew! and i don't want no more mediocrity!

 

END

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The problem is that there is so much inertia to overcome at club level that it takes too long and too much effort to address and would actually be futile.

 

What clubs are trying to do is lead a horse (i.e. new members) to water. Having got them there they can't seem to be able to get them to drink (participate) or, at least, drink for long enough to sustain growth in the club membership (i.e. growth from new membership is killed off by attrition). Across the board (but not in all cases) the traditional approach just don't work any more)

 

There needs to be a fresh approach where a collective effort by the marine industry / YNZ / Clubs / the media make the horse want to drink in the first place. IMHO the objective of this is to plant sailing (not necessarily racing) in the psyche of non-sailing folks by making it appear fun / cool / sexy / clean and green / affordable / down to earth etc etc. This can only be achieved through mainstream media (i.e. TV shows) which focus on the fun every day people have sailing in really cool places throughout the country. Clubs don't have the resources / reach to do this. These shows need to focus on real people and boats not highly paid over-glitzed professional sailers that nobody can relate to (except perhaps professional rugby players) sailing on completely unaffordable boats.

 

Clubs can only reach out to sailors and, because of this, they are all competing for a share of a skinny little pie. Collectivly only "the industry" can reach out to non-sailers and grow the pie and until this happens the clubs are pissing into the wind.

 

As you were gentlemen.

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Oh do please wonder off and fornicate furiously new poster person.

You sure do but in a gentlemen like manner. That OK ya noobie tosser :lol:

Nice call on that by the way.

 

Great post and I like it, especially the perception part. That is a big one to over come. Many of the non-sailing public do think that you have to spend 100 of 1000's on a boat and have the skills of Dean Baker or Chris Dickson (chosen specifically for STS ;) )

 

Bloody hard one to over come if all that is seen on telly is AC, TP52's and Volvo. They are hardly glowing examples of everyday boating, and of many aspects boating, knot just the skills and dollars.

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