Jump to content

Ship hit Astrolabe Reef, Tauranga


Grinna

Recommended Posts

Crafty,

The chopper reference was to another post.

 

My post was more a 'why do so many always blame the Govt for everything even though most is well out of their hands?' rather than much more. You were just the lucky person, of a few, who made such a comment, it could just as easily been someone else.

 

Dealing with MNZ as I do a fair bit I'd say they moved bloody fast for them. Also within 24hrs of it hitting the bricks there was a massive push to get gear there on the chance it maybe needed. That was being done with out anyone really knowing exactly what was happening but the people who were tasked at the time to sort it swung into action within minutes rather than the many days many seem to think.

 

Having been paid as a job to salvage boats I do have some understanding as to how it works. Never had to do anything anywhere near that size, thankfully, but many issues are the same no matter what the size is. No 2 jobs are the same and each has to be approached in it's own right.

 

And off the top of my head the last decent sized boat that was 'totally fucked' and needed salvage was the Rainbow Warrior. That was a LOT smaller, tied to a wharf in the heart of Auckland and yet that still took a couple of weeks.

 

I can understand manys frustrations but I do believe that comes more from lack of understanding just the scale and the potential disaster that has pretty much been averted by taking a few moments to suss and develop a plan.

 

I have trained with deploying one at sea - an interesting exercise....
I've watched them practice inside Westhaven and always thought 'One good Riv wake and that boom is toast'. In the open ocean they would have no show. Mind you that was only a harbour rig so I could be being a little unfair.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Aaahhh ... actually there is oil spill equipment onsite in every port in the country and regular drills and exercises with regards to its deployment and operation. The problem there is that its geared toward protected waters and chop and waves makes it pretty much useless at controlling spilled oils. Bods were onsite pretty promptly trying to contain the oil and when that didn't work dosing it with dispersants ... evaluating and trying options. Even the pros struggle to control oil spills in anything other than flat calm water conditions .... refer to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill from the BP well for an example.

Thank-you Grinna. You beat me too it.

Crafty, you have to also remember that most of the containers were below deck and underwater. The contaners above deck were GPS'd early on and almost all the above deck containers managed to be removed. The ones below deck were almost impossible to access and even if they could be accessed, lifting them out by Crane would be almost impossible due to wave action causing movement and also the Rena being on a list.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1

Grant and Rigger,

 

thanks for you explanations. They have clarified many uncertain issues for me.

 

I agree the media spin does not always help, but, as grant and i heard, when the salvage spokeperson gives out bad info (re the helicopter) and also does not defend themselves, when the media are twisting the facts, then most folks believe what they hear.

 

As for the oil booms. Well the first 3 calm days after the rena grounded saw no containment!

 

Also if the Government and all its agencies allow ships into our ports and clip the ticket for these ships, then they should be responsible for having worlds best prasctice "contengency plans"for this type of event. As such they are as much to blame as the ships captain. after all we have known for decades that these events happen and these ships have some very "strange crewing arrangements.

 

Sorry Grant, Rigger, and Knot me but i do not accept we are well equipped and employ worlds best practices... or better. I do however see that you are pragmatic and reasonable in you thoughts and probably know more than me. but why not try for something better than what we have and what we are seeing. :?: :thumbup:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
Aaahhh ... actually there is oil spill equipment onsite in every port in the country and regular drills and exercises with regards to its deployment and operation. The problem there is that its geared toward protected waters and chop and waves makes it pretty much useless at controlling spilled oils. Bods were onsite pretty promptly trying to contain the oil and when that didn't work dosing it with dispersants ... evaluating and trying options. Even the pros struggle to control oil spills in anything other than flat calm water conditions .... refer to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill from the BP well for an example.

Thank-you Grinna. You beat me too it.

Crafty, you have to also remember that most of the containers were below deck and underwater. The contaners above deck were GPS'd early on and almost all the above deck containers managed to be removed. The ones below deck were almost impossible to access and even if they could be accessed, lifting them out by Crane would be almost impossible due to wave action causing movement and also the Rena being on a list.

 

Understand that totally wheels, but...

 

If they were underwater then how were they going to get divers to attach the crane to them to lift them out? thus..

 

 

if they could do this then they could attach GPS units. Or am i missing something here?

Link to post
Share on other sites
As for the oil booms. Well the first 3 calm days after the rena grounded saw no containment!

They did, they had them protecting the esturies and other inlets and the harbor. Even what we consider as calm was still too ruff for them to use properly out around the Rena.

Getting the containers out from below deck was probably not going to happen. It was just too dangerous for anyone to go into the Holds above waterlevel, let alone a diver underwater around containers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry Grant, Rigger, and Knot me but i do not accept we are well equipped and employ worlds best practices... or better. I do however see that you are pragmatic and reasonable in you thoughts and probably know more than me. but why not try for something better than what we have and what we are seeing. :?: :thumbup:

I don't think you'll get many arguing against that but, isn't there always, NZ is more anal than most countries with its rules and nothing like this has ever happened here before so in the big scheme of things the authorities would have been seriously stuck between having to decide what to pay, from a very limited budget, for a hospital that do get used extensively or a very very large sum of money to gear up for a incident like the Rena. Based on history and 'likelihood' the hospitals win.

 

We are pretty well equipped for what we were expecting and have seen happen i.e. a good sized fishing boats and the stuff like that. It's just the scale of the Rena is exponential so much bigger.

 

But I'm sure we'll see changes now. Sad it has to happen after the fact but then the people who build Chch didn't expect a 7mag earthquake either.

 

Whatever happens we will never be 100% prepared, we just can't afford it, it's that simple. It's all a odds game and the odds say things like the Rena are vary rare.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
Sorry Grant, Rigger, and Knot me but i do not accept we are well equipped and employ worlds best practices... or better. I do however see that you are pragmatic and reasonable in you thoughts and probably know more than me. but why not try for something better than what we have and what we are seeing. :?: :thumbup:

I don't think you'll get many arguing against that but, isn't there always, NZ is more anal than most countries with its rules and nothing like this has ever happened here before so in the big scheme of things the authorities would have been seriously stuck between having to decide what to pay, from a very limited budget, for a hospital that do get used extensively or a very very large sum of money to gear up for a incident like the Rena. Based on history and 'likelihood' the hospitals win.

 

We are pretty well equipped for what we were expecting and have seen happen i.e. a good sized fishing boats and the stuff like that. It's just the scale of the Rena is exponential so much bigger.

 

But I'm sure we'll see changes now. Sad it has to happen after the fact but then the people who build Chch didn't expect a 7mag earthquake either.

 

Whatever happens we will never be 100% prepared, we just can't afford it, it's that simple. It's all a odds game and the odds say things like the Rena are vary rare.

 

Hear what you are saying Knotme

 

Remember the Pacific Charger? missed the entrance to wellington Harbour and got stuck.

 

While not on the scale of the Rena we still have not evolved our salvage and containment system very much since then.

 

Then we had the one in Otago harbour.about 8 years ago.

 

I hope this is a rare situation? but with the govt wanting to exploit our oil reserves i think oil spill containment is the next big business in NZ :( I don't trust overseas Corporate to be "model citizens". their records proceed them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Rigger, I knew thought that the containers below deck was being a major headache for them.

Crafty, The big problem is that every single oil spill is different. Different type of oil/fuel and different way it is spilt or leaks and different place/environment, all coupled with cost and risk. As soon as this spill occured, Airforce were flying in gear from Oz. It sounds like a long way to bring gear, but it is no further by air than any other place in NZ and it is more economical to have two countries share the cost than just little us. As soon as the spill occured, they sprayed it, but the fuel was too heavy(I assume) for the detergent to be of any affect. In some respects I think that was a blessing as the dertergents don't actually get rid of oils, they simply make it sink and hide the problem. Having it wash ashore and then get picked up maybe a pain in the A but means all the oil is removed rather than be hidden in the environment.

And I too was quite vocal at what seemed NOT to be happening at the beggining. Like lots of NZ'ers' we were upset at this situation and how the heck could it happen. But we have4 to remember, the salvers are experts and it is in their very best interest to salvage as much as they can without losing any of it and so you have to just trust. MNZ are not totaly calling the shots. Port Taraunga and their council are wanting to protect themselves more than anyone. MNZ call the shots as to navagation and keeping the area clear and so on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The big problem is that every single oil spill is different

 

You're pretty much spot on there Wheels. Whenever anyone says "oil spill" the images that instantly spring to mind are vast slicks of thick black oil coating shorelines and that isn't necessarily the case. Crude oil derived from different areas has different qualities and characteristcs. Taranaki crude for instance isn't black, its a creamy yellow colour and has a very high wax content so that when you have a spill into seawater the volatile fractions evaporate pretty quickly and you're left with loads of small balls of wax washing up on the shoreline. The crude oil they were extracting in Libya was pretty much diesel - which is why it was so valuable because it needed bugger all processing to be able to tip it into fuel tanks to run vehicles and plant. The stuff on the Rena that they were worried about was bunker oil which is thick gluggy crap and while they managed to get the majority of that stuff off the vessel, there's likely to be all sort of other grades of oil onboard from light lubricating oil to hydraulic fluid.

 

Pointing at a ship that was clearly under the command of muppets and claiming that its proof that no offshore oil drilling should ever occur is a bit of a nonsense and quite frankly an act of hypocrisy of the highest order unless you also forsake any benefits of petroleum based products.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
From oil washing in and wrecking the environment and the harbour and thus losing business.

 

 

I would have thought ... "from some blame" as well Rigger,

 

By this i mean (and i am thinking aloud here)... it is the Ports business to maximise the throughput into thier ports and as such they may be rushing boats through the port which in turn may put pressure on Ships/captains to rush to beat the Que (there was talk of this with the Rena case)

 

Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

I accept the Boat and Boat owner should not put their ships at risk and should have insurance cover for this type of incident, and thus the port thinks they don't need to prepare to a high level for incident this large, But as we are seeing they (the owners), in many cases...

 

 

Have ships that are run at the min maintenance levels (as we are seeing at Christmas Island right now)

 

They have low quality crew and Skippers

 

The standards on the Bridge of these ships is lacking

 

the levels of Mapping equipment and use of is poor

 

the level of Alcohol intake is quite excellent :wtf:

 

And the amount of insurance cover is limited and does not reflect the type of damage and rectification these large ship cause.

 

So, The Port companies should also hold some accountability for the business and the enviroment they create and profit from.

 

Is that a fair statement?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all about the buck Crafty.

 

Walmart, Warehouse and the likes of those often tell suppliers what they will pay for goods. If the supplier wants to supply they have to cut costs.

 

Why? You want that 50" flat screen for 1K knot 5.

 

All this shite is being driven by marketers. They are the root cause of most of the worlds financial woes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

More missing cargo from the Rena?

 

"The body of a male has been recovered from the sea off Waihi Beach, near Tauranga. At about 7pm police were called to an area north of the beach. A boat from the Waihi Beach Surf Club found the body floating about 200 metres offshore from Homunga Bay, and took it back to Waihi Beach. Police said enquires were under way to identify the male and the circumstances surrounding his death."

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10777890

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
It's all about the buck Crafty.

 

Walmart, Warehouse and the likes of those often tell suppliers what they will pay for goods. If the supplier wants to supply they have to cut costs.

 

Why? You want that 50" flat screen for 1K knot 5.

 

All this shite is being driven by marketers. They are the root cause of most of the worlds financial woes.

 

 

Yip you're right there! 100%

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'v been to Homunga Bay quite a few times as my family has a a place at Waihi Beach. You walk over the hill from the northern end of Waihi Beach to Orokawa bay then carry on further to Homunga. You can also get to Homunga from the end of a country road.

 

Both Orokawa and Homunga are really steep beaches with a big undertow and dumping waves, unlike Waihi Beach which is a lot flatter and safer. Lots of tourists get into trouble at these beaches, as they feel like they need a swim after a walk, and aren't used to the conditions.

 

http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=homunga ... y&t=h&z=14

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

The spill response system in NZ is a three tier system, Tier one is the operator, which varies from the marina fuel bowser to, at the extreame end, Marsden point refinery. The operator needs to be reposnsible for their site and have an appropriate response plan in place. To be a Tier one site it must be a trasfer site of bulk oils.

 

Tier two is the Regional or District Council, they then deal with spills that exceed T1 but still fall within certian limits/guidleines both in size of spill and dollar terms.

 

Tier three is the big stuff, and Maritime NZ run the show (& pick up the bills)

 

In most ports you will find the the port company staff are invloved at a Tier two level, the Regional Council do not have enough dedicated staff so rely upon industry and others to make up the numbers if/when these events occur. Simmilalry the equipment is all provided by Maritime NZ, and is mostly stored within port facitlites, this means the equipment is mostly the same all around the country, hence the training will work for anywhere, and in the case of a Tier three like Rena you can take staff from anywhere to assist becasue they have all had the same training.

 

Incidently all the training is carried out by Maritime NZ as well ,and you will find a lot of the Port company staff have been through that.

 

In short the ports are inlvoved, maybe not as the leads agency but definitely involved.

 

"the level of Alcohol intake is quite excellent " - you got any proof of that??

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...