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Ship hit Astrolabe Reef, Tauranga


Grinna

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Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Crafty, you're spouting absolute sh*t now.

 

Several times, several different people have told you that all ports in NZ have oil spill equipment on hand, ready to go and have staff trained in its use and regularly train in the deployment and use of the equipment. Furthermore, so do marinas in NZ. The Harbourmasters (appointed by Regional Councils) are all part of the oil spill contingency system, as are Civil Defence. That would be the Ports and local government taking responsibility, being proactive and having the gear to deal with spills and clean them up. Obviously that doesn't fit with your model of blatant and widespread negligence on behalf of the government/council/port/"them" so you choose to ignore it and spout the same line of absolute rubbish.

 

Being opinionated is no substitute for actually knowing something about the subject being discussed.

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Pointing at a ship that was clearly under the command of muppets and claiming that its proof that no offshore oil drilling should ever occur is a bit of a nonsense and quite frankly an act of hypocrisy of the highest order unless you also forsake any benefits of petroleum based products.

 

I actually stopped and considered this the other day.

 

What will we have to do without, when there is no oil? (Hey - before you beat me up - I know it is a long way away yet, but a friend of mine who is right into conspiracy theories saw a doco on sky).

 

And I got to thinking.

 

All our liquid soaps are petroleum based are they not?

Shampoos?

Vaseline

my floor coverings, benchtops, cupboard coverings

the fabric our clothes are made of

and our furniture

our phones

our computers

Our tv's

let alone the obvious - tyres, car trims, fuel, etc etc

 

Is there anything that has absolutely no petroleum input?

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If you really want to be scared look into how much global food production is linked to the supply of cheap oil.

 

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/5045

 

 

Then consider that there is a pretty general consensus that we have reached peak oil, so expect oil prices to triple again in the near future. (they have tripled once already since we came back to NZ).

Good thing we have those chickens!

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Guest Crafty 1
Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Crafty, you're spouting absolute sh*t now.

 

Several times, several different people have told you that all ports in NZ have oil spill equipment on hand, ready to go and have staff trained in its use and regularly train in the deployment and use of the equipment. Furthermore, so do marinas in NZ. The Harbourmasters (appointed by Regional Councils) are all part of the oil spill contingency system, as are Civil Defence. That would be the Ports and local government taking responsibility, being proactive and having the gear to deal with spills and clean them up. Obviously that doesn't fit with your model of blatant and widespread negligence on behalf of the government/council/port/"them" so you choose to ignore it and spout the same line of absolute rubbish.

 

Being opinionated is no substitute for actually knowing something about the subject being discussed.

 

Sorry grinner but you are also wrong.

 

While i agree with youre post i disagree with you taking one paragraph out of a whole post and then commenting on it without reference to my first comment. (i am thinking out aloud here).

 

These are my thought warts and all and these thoughts are expressed to garner opinion and feed back to clarify the "port culpability" as Grant has done above for me.

 

But what i was referring to was the costs of the clean up not the actual clean up

 

But thank you for you're comment and putting me in my place :) :(

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Guest Crafty 1

Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

The spill response system in NZ is a three tier system, Tier one is the operator, which varies from the marina fuel bowser to, at the extreame end, Marsden point refinery. The operator needs to be reposnsible for their site and have an appropriate response plan in place. To be a Tier one site it must be a trasfer site of bulk oils.

 

Tier two is the Regional or District Council, they then deal with spills that exceed T1 but still fall within certian limits/guidleines both in size of spill and dollar terms.

 

Tier three is the big stuff, and Maritime NZ run the show (& pick up the bills)

 

In most ports you will find the the port company staff are invloved at a Tier two level, the Regional Council do not have enough dedicated staff so rely upon industry and others to make up the numbers if/when these events occur. Simmilalry the equipment is all provided by Maritime NZ, and is mostly stored within port facitlites, this means the equipment is mostly the same all around the country, hence the training will work for anywhere, and in the case of a Tier three like Rena you can take staff from anywhere to assist becasue they have all had the same training.

 

Incidently all the training is carried out by Maritime NZ as well ,and you will find a lot of the Port company staff have been through that.

 

In short the ports are inlvoved, maybe not as the leads agency but definitely involved.

 

"the level of Alcohol intake is quite excellent " - you got any proof of that??

 

Thanks Grant. that clears up that for me and makes me feel a lot better.

 

As for alcohol uptake. that will be proven in the fulness of time.

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If you really want to be scared look into how much global food production is linked to the supply of cheap oil.

 

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/5045

 

 

Then consider that there is a pretty general consensus that we have reached peak oil, so expect oil prices to triple again in the near future. (they have tripled once already since we came back to NZ).

Good thing we have those chickens!

 

Hay 'Sguidley' How much 'gas' does chicken-poop produce - could you bottle it & take it sailing / & or the chickens? By the time (if ever) you & I get to go sailing - maybe it'll just be - pure sailing & nothing else could then be afforded?? However @ $400.00 per egg maybe we can't afford to eat either?? Ciao bloke, james

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And I got to thinking.

 

All our liquid soaps are petroleum based are they not?

Shampoos?

Vaseline

my floor coverings, benchtops, cupboard coverings

the fabric our clothes are made of

and our furniture

our phones

our computers

Our tv's

let alone the obvious - tyres, car trims, fuel, etc etc

 

Is there anything that has absolutely no petroleum input?

Soap and Shampoo is about the only thing in your list not petroleum based. Well...the stuff I use isn't anyway. Oh hang about, i think Bodywash type soaps have Propylene Glycol, which is hydrocarbon based from Gas, but not oil as such.

 

It takes about 1 entire barrel of Oil for a Car tyre.

 

Furniture? unless it is plastic, which in saying that, all plastics are from oil. And that includes all synthetic ropes which are all plastic fibres. And yes, all synthetic fibres includes come clothing and fabrics. Cotton, Hemp, Hair/Wool and Silk being the only natural fibres I can think of.

The thing is, just about everything man made is drived from a hydrocarbon chain and yes, if Oil suddenly ran out tomorrow, I think much of our world would plunge back into the stone age. Because that is ruffly all we would have. Minerals, Metals, Plants and Animals, water and Air is all we have that are natural resorces.

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Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

So where would the responsibility start, how many miles out.

The ship was not in the harbour limits, had sailed from another port in NZ, had been in Aussie, how far back do you go... or does everything land on the doorstep of the one closest to where it happened.

 

Do you pay for the clean up when a courier driver crashes just before making a delivery of goods you ordered to be delivered to your place?

 

Everyone seems to be in the blame game, who pays. In the end we all end up paying whatever happens, insurance rates go up, prices go up, CEO salaries go up....

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Guest Crafty 1
Also it is the port that profits th most from Shipping and yet they appear to have no responsibility for "the clean up" nor any Clean up equipment...

 

So where would the responsibility start, how many miles out.

The ship was not in the harbour limits, had sailed from another port in NZ, had been in Aussie, how far back do you go... or does everything land on the doorstep of the one closest to where it happened.

 

Do you pay for the clean up when a courier driver crashes just before making a delivery of goods you ordered to be delivered to your place?

 

Everyone seems to be in the blame game, who pays. In the end we all end up paying whatever happens, insurance rates go up, prices go up, CEO salaries go up....

 

Yip but the problem is the cost are only absorbed through 4 million NZ'rs of which about 1,000,000 only pay taxes.

 

Now if this happened in Aussie they can dvivide the cost between 20 million tax payers.

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Guest Crafty 1
20 million less the kids, dole bludgers and kiwis who have moved there

 

Makes it about the same % !

 

%? if the cost of salvage and Clean up is $25 mill then the more paying taxes the less they have to absorb / pay.

 

25mil divided by 1,000,000 v 25mil divided by 20,000,000 - there's a big difference.

 

% has nothing to do with it.

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re oil dependency

 

There's not a single thing you do, eat, buy, fart or think that isn't dependent upon the oil energy chain.

 

I try to live my life in a way which uses as little energy from oil and coal as possible but just by living in a western country it is impossible. I ride my manufactured pushbike on roads of bitumen built with heavy machinery, wearing gore-tex and wool processed by machinery running on oil and electricity.

 

The food we buy, even if it is bio/organic, was shipped from there to here by trucks and ships (sometimes by electric train which is slightly better) and the farmer still relies on oil for his tractor to start, his morning cup of joe to be warm in his lit up kitchen, and for his shovels and rakes and implements of destruction to be strong and sharp. Unless he hoes his fields using a sharp stick and stone dragged by an ox which is unlikely unless your food is coming from Zanzibar - and even then it has to get from there to your table.

 

It is, theoretically, possible to live without the products of the oil age. But no one is willing to do so. Everything you do, the whole system we live in, is intrinsically linked to cheap energy and manufacturing. Yes there are far better (environmentally at least) alternatives but it will take a very long time of gradual, even minute, changes to get there, where ever there is. We could make some pretty big changes right off the bat, but no one is willing to do so. Who want's to give up their private automocar? Until we give up private cars, even electric ones, we will be chained to oil because we need roads and carparks - which incidentally suck up a vast amount of otherwise "productive" space. and both feed and force the dispersion of population across even more productive space. We are a growing population on a shrinking planet and both the growth and the shrinking are driven by cheap easy energy.

 

We all share the burden of responsibility for the Rena grounding. We all want to buy things made elsewhere, we all want to travel long distances and take tons of crap with us, and we all want other people to consume our exports. We all drank those soft drinks in all those PET bottles which were being shipped to God knows where. We all want to be insured against the vagaries of nature and to be able to transfer our risk to others. We're all paying for CHCH, Fukushima, and the last car crash that Johny come speedster had. We are all part of the system which creates these conditions which lead to these incidents and we all take part in the system of sharing the blame and the cost.

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Guest Crafty 1

Well said Dr Watson and not at all elementry my dear Watson.

 

But what did we do before we had oil?...

 

I know we had less war's and Cancers.

 

I know we had less pollution and less stress.

 

But then we had other issues that oil has solved. Albeit the solutions the oils industry has created are soultions to the oils industries problems in a lot of cases. :crazy:

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Well said Dr Watson and not at all elementry my dear Watson.

 

But what did we do before we had oil?...

 

I know we had less war's and Cancers.

 

I know we had less pollution and less stress.

 

But then we had other issues that oil has solved. Albeit the solutions the oils industry has created are soultions to the oils industries problems in a lot of cases. :crazy:

 

Well, before we had oil we had fewer people for a start. We also had a considerably lower life expectancy, less food, more lung disease (cooking over smokey fires will do that for ya), etc, etc.

 

Did we really have fewer wars or were they just smaller in scale and much more up close and personal??

 

Part of the lower cancer rate was that people a) didn't call it cancer or know what cancer was necessarily and B) didn't live long enough to develop some of the illnesses we get nowadays.

 

Less pollution? .... well fewer people so that's a part of it. But sanitation and waste management systems, for example, were pretty rudimentary if present at all so it depends on how you define pollution. Does faecal pollution of waterways count for instance?

 

Less stress? Yeah, cos working for hours and hours in the fields to try and grow and harvest food for you and your family and store sufficient for the winter, knowing that if you fail in any way it means at the very least rationing and hunger and at the worst starvation, disease and death is a very relaxing way to live. :lol:

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