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Race 4


TimW

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Paddy

You knew what was being said on the forum, if you were on the boat, you should have let Simon know.

Seems every body wants to argue the man (calling Tim a dork) rather than the argument.

Rod,

I agree with you and I may be one that pushes the Port Starboard, but only when I'm sure I can make it. Sometimes though, I agree, I don't. But before I do any turns (cos I don't know whether you had to bear away etc) you have to protest and DISPLAY your flag. It happened to me with Penelope a few weeks ago, but cos I was busy with trying to untangle a spinnaker halyard, I wouldn't have been able to get to my flag in time, so let it pass. So be it, and no use complaining, it was up to me, and I'm quite sure Penelope would have done the turns if I had protested.

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Not knowing the course, or 'everybody else did it' are acceptable excuses in today's society now?

 

Pathetic.

 

If there is an issue with race management, pursue this through the correct channels.

 

Otherwise; those who didn't do the proper course and know it should withdraw. Simple.

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Otherwise; those who didn't do the proper course and know it should withdraw. Simple.

 

Oh mothership.... you are so pure and right..... I am glad that our elite sports people are not as good as you !

 

Imagine the world cup and all the high tackles and testical grabbing that goes on ...... are you saying our all blacks should admit that they cheat and sin bin themselves .....how funy would that be !

 

What about cycling..... the tour de france wouldn't be worth watching without the drugs.

 

Why withdraw especially in such a ridiculous race with a missing / moved bouy..... I felt we were all dissadantaged enough !

 

if anything we should have worked together as a group to have the whole race thrown out.

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Ahh; so if one can not follow the rules and get away with it, they should? Gotcha.

 

Disadvantaged maybe - more like a total luck-of-the-draw situation, really. Your last statement is the best idea, really - but that would take some organisation and commitment. Is the division up to it?

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So why did NOBODY protest, if only to bring the matter to the race committee's OFFICIAL attention.

 

Once you have lodged a protest, the race committee MUST deal with it and only YOU can withdraw it. The issue cannot be swept aside if YOU don't want it to be, because you can appeal to YNZ or ISAF if nothing is done.

 

I have lodged a protest on a Race Committee years ago and was happy that they were able to deal with the issue inside the club committee structure. They were also happy for the "formality" that I was able to achieve with the protest. Everybody happy. Nobody disqualified but improvement was made for the betterment of all.

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Sounds like one of them "Leaders Debates" :?

 

Same old story, if you dont protest ( in the correct manner ) you dont have a leg to stand on.

 

Protest and go to the room just in case soemone doesnt withdraw.

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Paddy

 

You know the course.

Yes

You know you did not go around McKenzie Buoy.

Yes

You are the stated navigator of Vodafone.

Yes (not that night)

I'm certain you can mention this thread to Simon.

Yes

 

We are going for a yacht tonight and I am sure we will have a good 'ol chuckle about this thread :D .

 

But...

 

I still stand by my point that Simon, as far as I know, has no idea that you guys were having a go at him.

Some people here 'go on and on' about the principal of the matter "Simon and others should withdraw" and you are right.

But at the same time not one of you 'principled folk' has notified or talked to the alleged offender (in this case Simon).

 

Further...

 

You are banging on about 'principle' in a matter where the transgression on TVS's part is at best negligible, in that the effect on results or the series next to zero, as she came last.

 

If you were worried about the principle of a fair race, you should ask yourselves why the first three boats couldn't find the mark and why the mark is not on or near it's lat and long as published by the race organiser the RNZYS?

 

The boys on TVS are not sweating the principle.

Personally, I was just curious as to where the mark had disappeared to.

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We had some great rides that night anyway ! and all of us were smiling at the end !

 

I wonder if an online protest system would help to bring all this to the surface...... could still be a very formal process, but would bring protests to the facebook generation.

 

I really cant be bothered going to an actual protest hearing....its all a bit hard....

 

but if there was an I phone app, I am sure the amount of protests would more than double !! ....but peoples understanding of the rules might also increase....?

 

could actually be quite interesting...... could even be an outsourced system, that the yacht clubs sign up to....

 

 

I think I might be a little bit ahead of myself with this idea....

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[But...

 

]

 

You are banging on about 'principle' in a matter where the transgression on TVS's part is at best negligible, in that the effect on results or the series next to zero, as she came last.

 

 

Now tell me which is better overall, First on line or RAF (or DNF).

On Handicap a 5th place is still better than a RAF (DNF)?

 

I realise there is no competition in NZ anyway for Vodafone.

But I don't really agree with some of the "there is no protest so tuff titties approach either".

 

The rules work well in Port Starboards, Luffing, Mark Rounding etc, and even in Y88 racing where the boats are so close there is no way that any competitor would use their motor or miss a mark

but Vodafone sails so often miles away from her nearest competitor that some things just have to be self policing.

Is not really playing to the Whistle either.

 

Its more like the Golf Player who knows his ball has moved but can't be sure if anyone has seen.

The Golf Player calls a penalty on himself (and you see it happen every now and then), of course if the Player didn't call the penalty on himself and replays later proved the Ball had moved it would be instant disqualification.

 

Sorry if this is banging on too much Paddy, but maybe its your conscience at work !

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So the squady handbook, website etc and the Harbour Master have MacKenzie Bouy at 36 46.84S and 174 49.05E

 

Where is the amendment to say it is now at

36 47.51S and 174 48.89E?

post-737-141887192036.png

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Twas a good race last night. We found a small tear in the fractional genniker just before we started and it seemed a bit heavy for the big one.

 

Saw Tigre out there but she didn't come to play.

 

Was quite a strong tide coming back home though.

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Paddy,

 

All the squadran information is stated to be as a guide only. The offical notice of the moving of the mark was in "Notices to Mariners" by the Harbour Master. Like every one else here, you should be reading these every night before you go to bed.

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Paddy,

 

All the squadran information is stated to be as a guide only. The offical notice of the moving of the mark was in "Notices to Mariners" by the Harbour Master. Like every one else here, you should be reading these every night before you go to bed.

 

I'm on the HM's emailing list but can't remember that notice. What number was it?

 

Normally they are about closing the viaduct for events, Air Force survival training by Browns Is; new dolphin at container wharf etc.

 

I can't recall one about racing marks. I even checked the position on older Marks Charts.

 

Latest Notice was about last weekends Triathalon at Queens Wharf which had at the bottom:

 

Harbourmaster’s Office

Notices to Mariners currently in force:

53-10 Viaduct Harbour, Mandatory Radio Reporting

44-11 Ferguson Dolphin

54-11 Defence Force Training Browns Island

57-11 Viaduct Harbour Maintenance Dredging Operation

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I agree that they are only reccomendations but in all fairness after wednesday night i tried to find a Notice to Mariners that showed the mark being moved (As we use it for some BBYC Races and wanted to notify people) but cant...

When you look up the affected chart here:

http://www.linz.govt.nz/hydro/charts/nz ... 22&page=18

 

It doesnt show any NTM for that chart reflecting at McKenzie bouy so if anyone has it that would be well handy (not too add fuel to the fire but out of interest for another club to learn a lesson :-)

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I could only find LINZ Notice to Mariners:

NZ 67/10 NEW ZEALAND – North Island – East Coast – Auckland Harbour and Tamaki Strait – Light

Buoys.

Former notices – NZ 36(P)/10 and NZ 54(P)/10 are cancelled.

 

Chart NZ 5321 [ 191/09 ]

Insert Fl.Y.5s 36° 46’.72S., 174° 49’.12E.

Y

 

But Harbourmaster's chart shows as PaddyO stated:

"So the squady handbook, website etc and the Harbour Master have MacKenzie Bouy at 36 46.84S and 174 49.05E"

 

 

Back to "Post a Lookout" when in that area.

 

However having two series of "Notices to Mariners" or more as there are notices from other harbourmasters in other ports, is confusing.

 

How about ONE SERIES that includes all :?: KISS :?:

 

Email these days should make life simple, knot more confusing.

N2M 2010-67 AKL McKenzie Buoy.jpg

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I have plotted the two positions.

In my simple life, I have chosen to use the latest information and so went with the HarbourMasters 2011 positions as per HM's web site & Squadron book rather than the older 2010 LINZ Notice to Mariners 67/2010.

 

So who do we really believe :?: WHY :?:

AKL McKenzie Buoy LINV vs Harbourmaster.jpg

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I haven't found any notice that mentions moving Mackenzie Bouy.

 

The Rnzys October Mainsheet actually directs members as follows:

 

New harbour buoys

The Harbourmaster has produced a new racing buoys

information sheet which we have reproduced in the Club

Handbook. Alternatively, you can download the information

from our website (see Sailing - Courses). Some new

harbour buoys have been laid, whilst others have been

shifted, so please ensure you familiarise yourself with these.

 

This info puts the bouy as per my earlier post.

 

The club also reproduces Notices to mariners on the club web site. Can't see anything there either.

 

Rev, what were you using for your bed time reading?

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