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Insuring Multihulls


Megwyn

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Thanks Marshy, will give him a ring.

 

I guess the options for me is to just race and worry about the consequences of hitting another boat when it happens. The way I see it is that if I do damage to another boat (and being responsible), I will be willing to pay their excess to the owner and let their insurance company take me to court. I will plead guilty and destitute, and offer to pay say $50 a month, (the cost of an annual insurance cover) until the amount is paid off.

After all it's the insurance co's that are forcing me to sail without third party.

 

Booboo, just as well you're no longer racing in the same races I'm in 8)

 

I'm out there iin the multihull fleet more than I was before!

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Would not having full cover, or even 3rd party insurance, prevent you from racing John? Or would you still race, but maybe alter your style of racing - like maybe not pushing the boat so much or just being more conservative with starting or tactics?

 

Serious question. I'm wondering if trouble getting insurance is something that is going to have a negative impact on the quality of multihull racing and the fleet sizes.

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Here's some ideas that may work.

 

Well actually two.

 

1. All members of your fleet ( or club )just start a fund that you all pay in an amount of dosh into for repairs. Base the amount in a % of the value of each vessel. In other words start you own insurance company.

 

2. All get together and pool the collective fleets/clubs insurance requirements into one group then go to the market and seek the best deal For each individual Collectivley.

 

I would Have thought Insurance companies and keel boat owners would be nervous about fleets of boats sailing around without insurance. If you use the car insurance scenario where us responsible adults are very nervous about young hoons crashing into us with uninsured Vehicles and the way the insurance Co,s handle it, then the same should, and probably does, apply to multis.

 

Not saying the multi guys are young hoons. But multis are more like a formula one in an old folks home driveway!

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Hi Grinna

Trouble is I love racing, the tactics etc, and I cannot see myself being conservative because I do not have insurance.

To all that are concerned with me not having insurance, I see no difference with me being covered for third party or not. If I cause damage to another boat, because it would not be the other boat's fault there would be no cost to them, but to their insurance company. The insurance company would then need to sue me for damages.

 

Justin Port

As far as boat cover goes, I have no qualms in having cover or not. Be nice to have, but at the end of the day my boat is worth only $50,000, and the only way I can see me losing all fifty is by some seriously bad luck. Tris are unsinkable, so there should always be something salvagable.

 

My issue is third party.

This is how I think I will handle it. I will contact the major marine insurers and officially ask for third party insurance and warn them that if I am unable to obtain third party insurance from them, I give notice that I will be unable to pay any incurred costs should they arise from an incident with my vessel. I would however be willing to pay it off at say $50 a month till it is paid. I will then store those letters for if or when the court case comes around.

Any other ideas?

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I thought Kant know woulod cost more than 150K? (your limit you mentioned earlier).

 

I asked about 3rd party insurance by itself (as that was my main concern) but the insurers were only interested in offering full cover - I'm not 100% sure of the reasoning behind that. I guess they would ideally want everyone to have full insurance so they don't have to f**k about suing individuals.

 

John how was your mast an insurance job - it was new and fell down in mild conditions? If it was a manufacturing fault then it shouldn't have fallen on your insurance company to sort it out (and hence put another black mark on you in particular and on multi-hulls in general on the insurance playbook).

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Thanks Marshy, will give him a ring.

 

I guess the options for me is to just race and worry about the consequences of hitting another boat when it happens. The way I see it is that if I do damage to another boat (and being responsible), I will be willing to pay their excess to the owner and let their insurance company take me to court. I will plead guilty and destitute, and offer to pay say $50 a month, (the cost of an annual insurance cover) until the amount is paid off.

After all it's the insurance co's that are forcing me to sail without third party.

 

Booboo, just as well you're no longer racing in the same races I'm in 8)

 

I can't understand why Multi 3rd party is harder to get than mono, unless it's the potential personal injury risk assessment.

 

This could potentially become a problem affecting fleets, is 3rd party required to race, or just to park in marinas?

 

The potential issue JohnM with your $50/month plan is that if you come together with someone who either is insured, or there is substantial damage, there is nothing to stop them taking the boat, cars, houses a fact any assets if you were found to be at fault.

 

Yes it may take years, but damage of many hundreds of thousands is conceivable in collisions.

 

I wonder if the NZMYC should be talking to brokers/insurers to see whether a portfolio of boats, potentially which could include cars, houses..... From a sizable group of members would have any sway in "encouraging" 3rd party availability.

 

I would suggest that any multi insurance packages should specifically exclude cover from flipping. This is certainly an area of concern where some boats are pushed like beach cats and flipped 3 times in as many years. These occurrences get out to the insurance industry, who understandably say, I don't need the risk particularly with such a small market to spread any spike costs over.

 

Maybe if rollover was always excluded the insurance companies would look more favorably at multis, and maybe skippers would be just a bit more circumspect?

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Bull

2 things, If I have taken the initiative of trying to get third party from insurance co's, and I have the available documentation to back it up, I'm sure any judge would take that into account

 

Secondly, I don't own anything personally, other than the boat, a car,and some personal effects, if the first tactic doesn't work, they aren't gonna get much anyway. Even if an uninsured person tries to sue me personally, there wouldn't be much for them.

 

Anyway, I've always thought, if you're not living on the edge you are taking up far too much room.

 

Dean,

Tris under $150,000 this yr, over next.

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As I am insurered, what I am about to say is just theoretical from my perspective.

 

If you hit me and you are clearly in the wrong then my insurance company will presumably chase you to recover its loss. On the face of it, no skin off my nose apart from possibly an excess which to be fair Joh you have said you will pay. Of course if they don't recover the loss it impacts on insurance costs for the rest of us.

 

If however I wasn't insured (and some people choose not to - clearly can't assume you would be the only one without insurance) and you hit me and were clearly in the wrong then you saying you have no assets (in your name and that I can access) and no insurance and wont pay then I reckon it is irresponsible for you to be out there sailing let alone racing!!!

 

Might be fine for you John, but your basically telling the rest of us on here that we can go whistle for our money of you hit us and are in the wrong!

 

So either:

- ensure you have adequate insurance (understand you are trying)

- have sufficient assests behind you so you are truley self insured

- don't race the boat or sell it

 

My 2c worth

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As I am insurered, what I am about to say is just theoretical from my perspective.

 

If you hit me and you are clearly in the wrong then my insurance company will presumably chase you to recover its loss. On the face of it, no skin off my nose apart from possibly an excess which to be fair Joh you have said you will pay. Of course if they don't recover the loss it impacts on insurance costs for the rest of us.

 

If however I wasn't insured (and some people choose not to - clearly can't assume you would be the only one without insurance) and you hit me and were clearly in the wrong then you saying you have no assets (in your name and that I can access) and no insurance and wont pay then I reckon it is irresponsible for you to be out there sailing let alone racing!!!

 

Might be fine for you John, but your basically telling the rest of us on here that we can go whistle for our money of you hit us and are in the wrong!

 

So either:

- ensure you have adequate insurance (understand you are trying)

- have sufficient assests behind you so you are truley self insured

- don't race the boat or sell it

 

My 2c worth

 

Well said, I was thinking a similar thing.

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ab1974

 

Please don't get me wrong. I do NOT want to sail my boat without insurance. I can understand fully why insurance co's do not want to insure multihulls. As explained earlier in the posts on this topic, the volume of boats does not give adequate coverage to reduce the risk for insurance co's. But I would have expected to be able to get third party insurance. (By the way, Dan (MM's advised option) is unable to help at this stage).

But

If you are insured I don't expect you to whistle, but your insurance Co, after all they are not giving me the option of covering the damage done to their insured vessels.

If you are not insured, we are both as bad as each other.

Would I risk my other assets so they could be taken off me?. No, why would I.

Will I stop racing? No, but if you are worried about me and my cavalier attitude, you have the option of not racing in the races I race in.

 

BooBoo, Booger

Why are you guys worried?

When was the last race that either of you two have competed against me?

What would you do differently over this issue if you were in the same position as I am. I bet you guys, especially you BooBoo, would not give up racing. And I bet neither of you two would also expose your assets to the inevitable.

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And Booger

 

I thought a bit of compassion would have been coming my way after me losing my insurance because of the mast falling over.

 

Dean,

I certainly believed the mast fail was an engineering fault. But NZ Rigging convinced the Insurance Co that it was partly my fault, (by over rotating the mast) and that was why it fell over. They only had to pay 1/3.

The mast was a wing section, very thin, and they had placed the spreader on the 'flat' part of the section, with no support to bare the load, hence the spreader just 'squashed' the section, and the rig folded at that spot.

Before this, I had the mainsail Cam cleat rip off the mast, and the boom connection fall off, because of inadequate preparation of the installation to the thin section. To top it off, because I was racing on the Wednesday, I offered to pay for the repair of one of these items if it could be done before Wed. It was fixed on Thursday, and I still got a bill for it.

Then he is upset because I did not want him to fix it.

It cost mev his third to go to JT Spars, but at least I have full confidence in the mast now

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Would I risk my other assets so they could be taken off me?. No, why would I.

Will I stop racing? No, but if you are worried about me and my cavalier attitude, you have the option of not racing in the races I race in.

 

And I bet neither of you two would also expose your assets to the inevitable.

 

I thought a bit of compassion would have been coming my way after me losing my insurance because of the mast falling over.

 

Those two do not go hand in hand. First off you take a 'f*ck everyone else, I'm going to race whether I can afford the possible consequences or not', then ask for compassion?

 

Why should others have to forgo racing because you cannot get yourself sorted, and take responsibility for your actions? It's this selfish, conceited, narcissistic attitude in society today that's screwing it up.

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