Annual rant - lights

[grant 40]

The mast head is probably needed to comply with the 360 degrees

But for the late arrival a glow from something reflecting off the boat is probably more use as you get close.

 

It is absolute nonsense that solar lights are no good.

My one is even coast guard approved

[attachment=1]DSCF0975.JPG[/attachment]

 

[attachment=0]DSCF0976.JPG[/attachment]

 

 

from the look of it that is a Caramangh light, who make "proper" nav aids lights, and if it is that is a long way from your average solar garden light, they are a nice unit, and not too pricey either

[Guest]

You can buy all round white LED lights for feck all, I've seen them for 25-30 notes. Proper ones knot those stupid solar garden shitters used by targets just waiting to be hit. By 2am most are less use than a dog turd, often well before midnight.

 

Or make your own as I did. 8 LEDS arranged horizontally which swings off my boom so flickers making it very visible. An updated bulb in a marmite jar version. What's best it'll run off a AA battery for 4-5 days none stop, even though it has a lead to a ciggy plug which goes into one of the many female ciggy plugs I installed in the boat. I made mine as at the time the off the shelf LED ones weren't around.

 

Masthead anchor lights are often crap to see. If it's a busy bay many do knot look up for lights.

[Guest]

 

according to Rule 22 you are right the rule is inadequate.

 

(2) In the case of sailing vessels underway, the vertical sectors of electric lights as

fitted must ensure that -

(a) at least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from 5

degrees above to 5 degrees below the horizontal; and

( at least 50 per cent of the required minimum intensity is maintained from

25 degrees above to 25 degrees below the horizontal.

 

The angle is even worse when viewed from a high bridge. Probably only need 10 - 15degrees heel and you'll be invisible to most of the big boys that come and go from Akl harbour.

[Fogg 427]

The angle is even worse when viewed from a high bridge. Probably only need 10 - 15degrees heel and you'll be invisible to most of the big boys that come and go from Akl harbour.

 

Which is why a single masthead tricolour is useful to have as an alternative to your deck level red/green/white lights - which must be more visible to ships due to it's height. But that's a 'nice to have' option for offshore sailing or when you are surrounded by shipping movements and suspect they might not have seen you. Of course the fallback option in an emergency when you think someone hasn't seen you is to shine a big torch/spotlight onto your mainsail - I've done this more than once in rough weather.

 

But let's not get ahead of ourselves - all this talk about whether the current regs are good enough is irrelevant when a significant % of the boats out there are not even adhering to the basics today. Again, I haven't done a scientific survey but from gut feel and my fairly frequent night sailing experience, I would estimate that as many as 1 in 3 boats is doing it wrong. By wrong I mean they are either showing incorrect lights or no lights when underway or at anchor.

 

And the root cause is either ignorance (they flick a few switches but don't really know the correct lights to show) or they couldn't care less (they know their lights are inadequate but chose to carry on regardless).

 

Both are pi!ss poor and potentially dangerous excuses.

 

Ironically, although I'd expect this if I was sailing off the coast of India (where many people drive on the roads at night completely unlit) my exerience was surprisingly good. When I was on the coast I would make a point of observing the local boating activity (often pretty ropey old fishing boats or barges) and I was pleasantly surprised to see them showing the correct lights more often than not. I might even be tempted to say they scored better than NZ.

 

Which is not what I would have expected from such strong seafaring nation as NZ. Which is why I still don't get it.

[Clipper 343]

AC, you've convinced me to ditch the garden light and get something better.

 

It will most certinaly NOT be masthead though. Firm believer that a masthead anchor light is a waste of time. Better off with a garden light on the stern.

[ab1974 1]

The reason we use both masthead anchor and cockpit is to maximise visability - with the added bonus that when I come back to the boat in the dinghy I can see the boat and when I get up in the night to get rid of the rum I can see where the end of the boat is...

 

My cockpit light is mounted on the pushpit and sits about 100mm above the top of it. Wouldn't be able to see it though if you were coming at us head on as it wouldn't extend above the cabin top. So if it is you're only light make sure it can be seen at 360 degrees. Technically though this can only be done from the masthead, but in practice if it is high enough only the mast / rigging should block the light from an approaching boat - (but possibly still not colreg compliant)

 

Generally (though certainly not 100%) when you enter a bay you're heading in toward the aft quarter of the anchored boats unless the tide has swung them around or the wind has swung and all the anchored boats are now on a lee shore. So most of the time my cockpit light would be visible.

[Fogg 427]

AC, you've convinced me to ditch the garden light and get something better.

 

It will most certinaly NOT be masthead though. Firm believer that a masthead anchor light is a waste of time. Better off with a garden light on the stern.

 

Well if this thread had pursuaded a few 'offenders' to improve their lighting efforts then that's great. Seriously.

 

And for sure some light is better than no light. But I do still have to differ on the masthead thing. If your stick was a 30m superyacht then maybe. But it's not that far off the water and at the time that approaching boats might be first picking out anchored targets to avoid (say 100m away) then a 10-15m masthead light is very visible without craning your neck vertically. It only goes out of sight when you are almost alongside. If you want a cockpit level light, then fine, but I reckon it should be in addition to a masthead light, not instead of. I do the same (show masthead and boom light) in crowded anchorages but never replace the masthead with just the cockpit light.

[Fogg 427]

Generally (though certainly not 100%) when you enter a bay you're heading in toward the aft quarter of the anchored boats unless the tide has swung them around or the wind has swung and all the anchored boats are now on a lee shore.

 

A good observation. Which is why a steaming light or deck floodlight is pretty useless cos it's often shining away from the direction of incoming traffic and is also hidden by the mast.

[Megwyn 2]

approaching boats might be first picking out anchored targets to avoid (say 100m away)

 

 

And a good LED solar light can be seen very clearly from further away than 100m.

[Steve Pope 243]

Bebi make specific LED anchor lights. can be found on trademe.

[Fogg 427]

approaching boats might be first picking out anchored targets to avoid (say 100m away)

 

 

And a good LED solar light can be seen very clearly from further away than 100m.

 

It feels like we are going round in circles here! Yes that might be true but we also estbalished that the regulations require your anchor light to be:

 

1. All round - which means it ought to be masthead

2. White

3. Visible from 2 nautical miles

 

All of which means the cheap garden solar options fail.

 

But if you mean one of those purpose build marine solar lights (CG approved) then it obviously passes.

 

If you are fixated on solar then fine. But we also established that today's LED lights meet the regulation criteria AND draw virtually zero current. So the solar thing is unecessary, surely?

[ab1974 1]

Spot on AC.

 

If you want to have a cockpit light or a solar light (other than CG approved) then make it in addition to your masthead 360 degree white light with 2nm visability, not as a repalcement.

 

If you can't remember to turn it on get an led (low draw) one that turns itself on and off.

[wheels 543]

Blimey, has nobody been working today

 

Squid, yes I did say what was wrong with the garden lights. They are the same intenisty, size and colour as the background Stars. If you don't notice it move against the background, you just think it is another Star. An anchor light of Correct Brightness is easy to spot and will actually slightly light up the boat as well.

 

So, what would you recommend as a good set of bino's? There are so many out there - how do you sort the wheat from the chaff?

Megwyn, money really does come into optics. The more you pay, the better you get. It is not about the coatings or the polishing, but actually the Glass itself. Very high quality optical glass is ultra expensive. Where you really notice a difference is in poor liught as it is getting Dark. A real top set will still allow a fair amount of light through and the cheaper ones will be more difficult to see with. However, we have a set of the $199 autofocus things you can buy from Burnsco and they work just fine for me. Sure an expensive pair would be better, but the cheaper ones do the job for me.

[Guest]

The rules are what they are but in reality 2nm isn't needed. A few 100mts is fine and if everyone got to that, at least, we'd all be better off.

 

Many existing lights, quite possibly on your boat, are limp and of a poor colour. By far the best is cold white LED. It is damn hard to mistake them for street lights, stars or other stuff, something that can't be said for many lights that do comply with the rules.

[rigger 47]

Ok Folks,

In NZ the Rule to follow is

Maritime Rules Part 22

 

Go to www.maritimenz.govt.nz and goto the rules section.

 

 

Below are the headings that may be of interest re this thread.

 

Section 2 - Lights and Shapes

22.21 Definitions relating to Section 2

22.22 Visibility of lights

22.25 Sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars

22.30 Anchored vessels and vessels aground

 

Appendix 1 - Positioning and technical details of lights and shapes

 

The following should be of interest - NOTE you are not limited to one anchor light if your vessel is less than 50m, but you may exhibit only one - so if you think one light fwd is not enough hang one off the boom or off the backstay.

 

22.30 Anchored vessels and vessels aground

(1) A vessel at anchor must exhibit where it can best be seen -

(a) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one black ball; and

( another all-round white light at or near the stern at a lower level than the

light in the fore part;

BUT if the vessel is less than 50 metres in length it may exhibit an all-round

white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights referred to in

subparagraphs (a) and ( of this paragraph.

[grant 40]

The rules are what they are but in reality 2nm isn't needed. A few 100mts is fine and if everyone got to that, at least, we'd all be better off.

 

one of the problems is under what conditions do you measure the range of the light?

 

for nav aids there is a serious of calculations that consider background lighting etc, you might find your 2nm light against a city background might have about 500metres of range, which leaves your 200m range garden light at maybe 50m?

 

I do agree that anything is better than nothing, however as AC has been saying, its not much harder to go from 'anything' to 'decent'

[Guest]

To true G. I know how they work it for the lights like the serious Nav aids like the one shown earlier but don't know if that also applies to the recreational ones. And the USCG measure them differently the the rest of the world, go figure. Get 2 lights the same measured by USGC and someone in any another county and the USCG one will have a longer range.

 

How long is Issy bay, a naughty mile? My home made one can be easily seen from one end to the other, which couldn't be said for a lot of the boats around me that very clean but dark evening. But then I did make it directional on the horizontal plane so if the Space Station was falling they wouldn't see me. But I don't see that as a big issue.

[Megwyn 2]

Blimey, has nobody been working today

 

 

Na. We have all been mooching about on our favourite message board.

 

Work is a four letter word Wheels!

[DrWatson 374]

Closest call was roaring back up rangi channel one night under full spinnaker and seeing at the last second a fishing tinny which was anchored smack bang in the middle of the channel. Saw it from the reflection of our port light then the flash of a cigarette lighter as one of them lit up. swerved and missed by a couple of meters.

 

They had no lights. But turned their nav lights on after we abused them.

 

Some night time publicized compliance action by harbour master and Police would make a few example cases me thinks.

 

Before my first ever night sail I sat down and voluntarily learnt by heart all the lighting regulations in safety in small craft. I wasn't the skipper but I learnt them by heart, and most of them stuck. It wasn't hard and there's a certain logic to it which makes it relatively easy.

 

Now learning the CEVNI regs for European inland waters lots more stuff to learn there.

[Guest]

Agree re the anchor light thing AC, if you anchor without a light you deserve to b hit, but can't go with the steaming light thing.

 

I know that none of my boats have ever had one, infact I would guess that most serious race boats don't have a steaming light installed. We get around it at inspection by having an emergency white which can b hoisted. When you spend thousands minimizing weight aloft it seems mad to put wire and a light up there.

 

The reality is most sail faster than they motor anyway, so I have trouble seeing the pertinance of a steaming light in the real world, operationally.