Guest Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Should a boat who has had the best season be the Nat Champ or one that just has a good weekend. As a quick over view/thoughts on the 2 options - One option is to tally up points from assorted pre-listed races during the year. These races could be a mix of all sorts at a range of Clubs or events meaning all boats have to be a bit OK at a range of race styles, crew levels and weather. Maybe have a 1 day mini regatta at the end of the season, maybe for double points, where ties are broken, the boats have the end of season lemonade and trophy handing over. This plan would suggest the boat that wins is the best all rounder over the season. The other option is the usual hold it over a weekend type thing... with the disadvantages events like that can have. What say you? Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think a really good way is to do a Circuit. So say you have the wednesday night series, Simrad, gold cup (or another longish series or race like the coastal) and then one or 2 weekend regattas, one of them being the national champs. The national champs should still be the weekend regatta but the season winner should be the winner of the whole Circuit. Have each series or race result add up like an individual race in a series. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 And organise the points system so a boat can carry the odd throw out for weddings and funerals. Link to post Share on other sites
Ptown 14 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Nat champ, I reckon, over the weekend but Top Ranked boat over the season with different events, locations/courses. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think a really good way is to do a Circuit. So say you have the wednesday night series, Simrad, gold cup (or another longish series or race like the coastal) and then one or 2 weekend regattas, one of them being the national champs. The national champs should still be the weekend regatta but the season winner should be the winner of the whole Circuit. Have each series or race result add up like an individual race in a series. How can it be a "National Champ" if all the races are in Auckland ? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The same way American Baseball is the "World Series". Also if you use the words National Championship YNZ will want their pound of flesh, hence the Piedy Intergalactics. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Us Jollyboaters have a "World Cup" Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 'World', as in 'The World Series', was the name of a newspaper that sponsored the event. The word World has nothing to do with the world as in the bit of earth outside of US borders. OK so far and interesting. But ponder this into the mix. A Nat Champ is supposed to be the best boat in the country. I am putting aside the chances of some fleets having every boat in the country there just isn't possible for assorted reasons, for the sake of this chat. If that is right how can that be decided in one weekend. Like most events there are boats that like lower winds, some that like higher, some that spend the year doing short W/L's and some that never do those during a season, some that stack rockstars for that one weekend who will never be on the boat at any other time and other stuff like that. So it is highly possible and does happen a Pink boat does good all year but come Nats weekend it's light and they like more wind, they haven't done one W/L all year but the Nats courses are all W/L's (as they boringly seem to be these days) and they have their usual crew who have done the yards all season. They get taken out by a Black boat that is average at best all season, dumps it's usual crew in favour of rockstars, spends all year only sailing off the Westhaven wall and is tuned for light winds only as the skipper is a woose and thinks his head will fall off if it cops a 20kt gust. Is the Black boat really worthy of being called the Nat Champ or more just worthy of attracting a 'did they pull one out of the hat' or maybe the Black boat is 'The National short L/W soft winds inner harbour but fucked if doing anything else Champ' call? It's something that's had me wondering for many many years as to why and along with that is why does yachting do it so differently to many other sports. It just seems to detract from the title National Champion that we continue to set such a very very narrow and limited set of parameters in a sport chocker with masses of possible parameters. Link to post Share on other sites
TCat 3 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The elliott 5.9 class have both - there is a Traveller Series champion which is the best score over 5 regattas over the season - typically in different venues each year. The National Champion is decided solely from the Nationals regatta which is not included in the Traveller series. Over the last 5 years it has been proven to be extremely difficult to win both - recent case in point we just got hammered at the Nationals yet had a traveller series of 2,2,1,1,1 - the year previous we won the nationals very comfortably and got beaten in the traveller series. The whole thing works well to also keep everyone interested and there something to compete for. This year for the first time we borrowed another idea - and have added a Ranking champion. This is also decided at the Nationals - but you go into the Nationals with a fleet rank based on your traveller series position. The boat that out performs their ranking by the most places at the nationals is the winner. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I don't mean to be a negative prick, but I think it's a stupid question. Sorry, but I do. You might as well ask whether rivers should flow down hill or would it be better if they flowed uphill instead. Yachting classes have had "national championships" regattas since, well, forever. Some classes also have circuits, or grand prixs. Asking whether one is better than the other, or whether the circuit/grand prix is or is not more deserving of the title "national championship" just seems like a waste of time. It's not going to change. There will always be one off regattas toiuted as "the big one" for the year, and (at least in some classes) there will also always be series that run across multiple regattas. They are what they are, and it's not gonna change. Just accept that they are what they are and get on with life. (I'm not trying to have a go at you KM. Not being critical of you. I just think this is a debate that doesn't need to be had) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Have to agree KB. Most sports have a Nats - a one off event that it doesn't matter how much you suck the rest of the year you still have a chance to aim for. Olympics, World Cups etc, most have a single event. Even sports like rugby & league with a season series have moved to having a final - doesn't matter if you've been top dog all season you can still have your pants pulled down at the big event. Having said that I see no reason why KM's idea shouldn't be done, just not convinced it's a National Champ. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I don't mean to be a negative prick, but I think it's a stupid question. Sorry, but I do. You might as well ask whether rivers should flow down hill or would it be better if they flowed uphill instead. Yachting classes have had "national championships" regattas since, well, forever. Some classes also have circuits, or grand prixs. Asking whether one is better than the other, or whether the circuit/grand prix is or is not more deserving of the title "national championship" just seems like a waste of time. It's not going to change. There will always be one off regattas toiuted as "the big one" for the year, and (at least in some classes) there will also always be series that run across multiple regattas. They are what they are, and it's not gonna change. Just accept that they are what they are and get on with life. (I'm not trying to have a go at you KM. Not being critical of you. I just think this is a debate that doesn't need to be had) Zero worries at all KB, it's only a discussion question. Knot sure 'it is what it is and always has been' is that valid though as things change over time or sometimes have to evolve for other reasons. It's just I'm hearing more comments that suggest boats just aren't doing Nats as the weekend event style can be very one dimensional so I was wondering if it's time to re-look at things to see if there is a way to get more boats out there. The idea of spreading it over the season, so to speak, was to see if it maybe a way to get more boats on the water and with a shot at ending up the Nat Champ as a nice incentive. I'm hearing more comments along the lines of 'Knot doing the Nats this weekend as it'll be soft and we are crap in the soft'. Heard that again only an hour ago. Also comments along the lines of 'can't be bother changing the boat for the Nats', 'We never sail like that during the normal season so can't be arsed/bothered' and things like that. Looking at some class's the Nat Champ is more just in name only rather than earned in the heat of battle. Is that good for our sport? I think knot. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Fair enough. I think location bias is a MUCH bigger factor than conditions/format bias. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I think a differentiation needs to be made of "Auckland champ" and "National Champ". Were not in America and running the "world series". Oh f$ck it. Scr3w the national champs....lets have the Ross 930 World Series....in Auckland Harbour with no other boats from anywhere else in the country taking part..... I think a national champs- if it's going to be real- and as it's likely to be- held over one weekend - and if an association can get it's chips together - majority of boats racing- with potential for some out of towner class racers to charter a boat to compete. No point in calling it a nationals otherwise. It's a provincial thing. Rant over. Wheres that wine gone. Link to post Share on other sites
piebuss 0 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Hey all. Just logged in from sunny old Peru to see what´s going on in lead-up to the Piedy intergelactic champion of the world & universe regatta on the 26th and 27th of May. Doing a series only works if you get a good turnout throughout the year, the piedy´s don´t. We do get a good turnout for the worlds however, and having a lot of boats on the same race course is the best way to find out who really is the best. Racetrack is great, but it´s not perfect. So in a fleet where only 1/5 of the boats race regularly, a weekend regatta with most of the boats is the best. By the way, I learnt another use of wind over here... Link to post Share on other sites
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