Is it time for recreational licenses in NZ

[Powerboat Training 0]

We are seeing quite a few accidents in New Zealand that are preventable recently. Is it now time to finally bite the bullet and is there public support for the introduction of licenses for boaties? If not why do you think we should not have licenses?

[Grinna 2]

There has been a long history of driver licencing in this country and yet we still see lots and lots of accidents ... most of which are preventable, shouldn't have happened and are solely due to driver error or poor judgement.

 

Why would you think that instituting recreational boat licencing will have any discernible effect on the types of accidents seen recently in NZ waters?

 

Would licencing have prevented the death of the jetskier recently? No ... he was being a dick, ignoring the rules and he came a cropper. Would licencing have prevented the sinking of the Gypsy on Anniversary Day? No ... that was a case of poor judgement and "driver" error.

 

Recreational licencing would do nothing except create another layer of bureaucracy and line the pockets of companies peddling training courses.

[Powerboat Training 0]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I believe it is the correct way to go or not. Just looking for opinions.

 

We spoke to an insurer recently and they told us that their statistics said just over 75% of their claims were as a direct result of inappropriate GPS usage and poor knowledge of it's correct use. It's hard to know what you don't know until somebody shows you a good way of doing things.

[col j 0]

Maybe, but the problem is stupid people are still going to do stupid things. Overloading dinghys, crashing because of going too close to other objects, crashing through not keeping watch, getting caught in bad weather unprepared ect.

 

We have licences for cars yet still have people speeding, causing accidents, drink driving. Will it really help?

 

Then is it going to be policed? as in are they going to set up licence checks and so on?

 

There are already rules in place regarding giving way and speeds yet we don't see that many people pulled up doing over 5 knots within 50m. Chances are they already know the rules, just don't follow them because the chances are they wont get caught. Funding may be the issue there but is the cost of licensing going to pay for the police/harbour master to inforce the rules?

 

Educational programs are there. Maybe it becomes compulsory to have day skipper or something?

 

Its only a minority who get it wrong. It sucks when it does go wrong because there's always the possibility of new legislations when someone ends up cold or dead, RIP. Recently the fishing trawler, I'd say they all knew what they were doing but sh*t happened. Overloaded dinghy on the Manakau, hard to say but common sence was lacking a bit I think.

 

Take from it what you will, I can't speak for others but about the most wrong I've got it is a broach under sail. Qualifications I have are radio operator and advanced sea survival, both came after a life of boating with no issues.

[banaari 27]

(...) and line the pockets of companies peddling training courses.

And there I rather suspect we've hit the nail on the head. Whole new industry waiting to be spawned overnight with the stroke of a reactionary pen, and *massive* amounts of money to be made; if every outboard- and diesel- equipped boatie in the country was suddenly forced to get licensed.

If (over my rotting corpse) that happens, will be making damn sure to get trained, if necessary, by the Coastguard and not a private establishment...

[rigger 47]

If you introduce a recreational licence what level of knowledge do you require people people to attain?

 

If using a GPS do they need a GPS endorsement

If using a radar do they need a radar endorsement

If using a compass do they need a compass endorsement\

 

If using none of the above as they have no endorsement what would that mean - less safe / more safe?

 

I think licensing for recreational boaties would be a nightmare of red tape and restrictions for little real benefit.

 

We spoke to an insurer recently and they told us that their statistics said just over 75% of their claims were as a direct result of inappropriate GPS usage and poor knowledge of it's correct use.

 

Perhaps those insurers could require their customers to undertake and pass a Coastguard course to get a lower premium.

[DrWatson 375]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I believe it is the correct way to go or not. Just looking for opinions.

 

We spoke to an insurer recently and they told us that their statistics said just over 75% of their claims were as a direct result of inappropriate GPS usage and poor knowledge of it's correct use. It's hard to know what you don't know until somebody shows you a good way of doing things.

 

Then that seems like a GPS training course might help a few of those, but if those people had enough brains, then many of the GPS assisted accidents wouldn't occur.

 

A Boatmasters course learns you the basic skills. If insurance companies made it noticeably cheaper to have insurance if you had a Boatmasters or day skippers, then that might start to take care of itself.

I'd be interested in the respective number of claims from people with Day Skippers, Boatmasters, Coastal cruising, yachtmaster etc.

 

Grinna is right though, most of the powerboat accidents are not going to go away through licensing, those dicks will always be dicks, and there are already plenty of laws to deal with them, it's just the enforcement which is lacking.

 

I say it now and I say it again. A few Sting Days on the harbour would have a large effect I believe. Targeting speed and hooning around the wharves and moorings on PWCs/tinnies/powerboats.

[DrWatson 375]

Come to think of it, we could all start videoing boats we see doing stupid things and then send it to the Harbour Master. A little "community watchgroup" action on the water.

[Tim C 23]

Absolutely it is time for power boat licensing.

Race yachts we are governed by safety and racing rules.

Offshore cruising boats are governed by safety and maritime NZ rules.

Both sets of owners are publicly traceable by the YNZ yacht register (assuming the owner has kept it up to date)

Dinghy sailors likewise a traceable by their sail number, probably via their yacht club.

 

Launch and fizz boat owners are anonymous on the water. If they behave dangerously there is no easy way to trace them. It is an unfair situation, biased against the class of boat that I'd bet statistically has the least accident in NZ water (yachts)

 

So it is time that all powerboats had a displayed number, so that any dangerous activity can be usefully reported in to the authorities. Whether that includes education and licensing is a side issue. TIme they were accountable...

[Guest]

We spoke to an insurer recently and they told us that their statistics said just over 75% of their claims were as a direct result of inappropriate GPS usage and poor knowledge of it's correct use.

Those people don't need a boating course, they need a simple remedial reading course. Every GPS I've seen has a 'use how to use this 1st' page the operator has to OK to get pasted before it works properly.

 

Or they need a course in 'How to wade thru bullshit marketing to find the real truth' course. Ever seen how mm accurate GPS's are in the adverts.... someone pass me a Tuis please.

 

There are many who need and would benefit greatly from some form of formal training. I often suggest to boaters to do at least a simple Boatmaster course or even more. Many have and have thought it well worth the effort but making it compulsory won't change bugger all on the water. Besides if you look at the serious to fatal boating accidents they are 95% covered by either pure stupidity or involve people who would never ever get a license anyway.

 

OK now confused thanks Tim. We talking people licences or boat licences? I thought the people driving them in which case No, but the boats themselves? Yes I'd probably have to lean towards a Yes on that, pretty much for what Tim said.

[wheels 543]

We spoke to an insurer recently and they told us that their statistics said just over 75% of their claims were as a direct result of inappropriate GPS usage and poor knowledge of it's correct use.

It says on the screen when you power a GPS up, NOT to be used for Navigation Yet idiots still think it is accurate enough to rely on it. What I would find most surprising is Insurers actually paying out when someone has used a GPS to run themselves into or onto something.

Idiots that drive those Huge fast moving stink pots don't actually need to know rules in regards to passing too close to slow moving smaller boats. It's common sense. Yet they still do it. No licence is ever going to make them change their ways, because it is an attitude problem, not a rule problem.

[Guest]

HELL NO,

I've got skipper's tickets coming out my eyeballs and close to 1/2 million miles under various keels in different parts of the world but I still make cock-ups, some very embarrassing. Where I save myself is eternal vigilance to correct my mistakes before things go too pear shaped, which is not something you can legislate for. It comes with attitude and, giving some potblellied dickhead in a Riviera a bit of paper saying he's good to go will only make the problem worse.

Educate and enforce, we already have enough damn laws we just need to enforce what we have and saturate the boating community in education.

[Atom Ant 0]

I think the question was rather broad, and hard to answer with just a yes or no. But thank you for coming to us and asking. No don't be too worried about the somewhat abrupt responses you may see here. We're all on a word diet so will try to be brief.

 

I voted no but only because the question was all encompassing, and yet all sectors of recreational boating don't need to be licensed.

 

Jet skiers? Yes license them and their vessels please and the sooner the better. Make them have bloody big numbers on them so that they can be photographed.

 

Fizzboaters? Yes. There are too many people that hit the water with no training of any kind, and they not only risk the lives of themselves and their trusting and gullible passengers, but they then potentially risk the lives of others who go to rescue them.

 

Launches? Probably, but not sure how you would work it.

 

Yachties? Boy there's a can of worms. Should you license the young kid who is learning to sail in an Opti? How about a Laser sailor? Then how about a 12 ft skiff, or an 18 footer? How about all those raft dwellers that sail at more than 5 knots in the harbour area - or just about anywhere for that matter. That being said, yachties make up a small percentage of the stats in terms of "issues" overall. But they are not immune to stupidity so what to do?

 

The correlation with car licensing doesn't equate in my mind . How are we to know how many more vehicle accidents would happen if there was no driver licensing at all? The reason licensing doesn't work in NZ is probably more to do with how easy it is to get a license and the lack consequence for deliberate poor driving. e.g. boy racers, or driving vehicles unfit to be on the road.

 

So my answer to your question is yes but no. Sorry...

[Megwyn 2]

I concur with AA

[Guest]

There is a licence for someone to legally drive, but anyone can take control of a fizzboat and do 30 knots and that should change. How to police it and register everybody is a completely different question, and I unfortunitly dont have any good suggestions to add to this discussion.

[broadoak 0]

IMHO I think anyone who buys or operates a jet-ski, fizz boat or launch should have to attend & presumably pass, at the minimum a Day Skipper course. The Day Skipper course only takes a few hours, but gives an introduction to rules, regs, navigation, safety etc. It would be nice if holding a Boatmaster could be made mandatory, but I'm sure some people would complain about the extra time for the course being unreasonable. The Day Skipper would be a great start.

[broadoak 0]

It would be a little like having to have a gun licence before being able to buy a gun, having a Day Skipper / Boatmaster certificate would need to be shown before the jet-ski, fizz boat, launch could be bought.

[Megwyn 2]

a Day Skipper / Boatmaster certificate would need to be shown before the jet-ski, fizz boat, launch could be bought.

 

Second hand? Through Trade Me?

That could be difficult to enforce.

[Guest]

a Day Skipper / Boatmaster certificate would need to be shown before the jet-ski, fizz boat, launch could be bought.

 

Second hand? Through Trade Me?

That could be difficult to enforce.

 

Thats the big problem with introducing a licence as even the motor vehicle licencing is hard to police and enforce properly. Luckily the questions here isnt how, its is a licence needed.

[broadoak 0]

It works with guns bought / sold second hand. You have to either show your licence or have the fact that you have a licence authenticated by the police through filling out an appropriate form & having it signed. It is a bit of a process, but not too difficult. I guess it does rely on the integrity of the buyer & seller to a certain degree.