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TimW

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Great thread Tim...

This is the way to do it... bit late to offer suggestions at the briefing.

All idea's will be considered.

 

Also... Next year will be the 21st Anniversary of the SSANZ Triple Series ! I'd personally like to see 200 entries and do something special to celebrate. Let me know any good idea's ???

A SSANZ Ball has been suggested ?

Might also be time for a refresh of the courses...

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In the many SSANZ series I have done on Sundreamer and the one on Tigre I do find the last start is a good option.

 

The reason I say that is there is far less traffic round the committee boat when the start sequence gets underway. It’s all well and good saying people need to stay clear for the start area if it is not their start but in reality that does not and will not happen.

 

Boats are more compact in the starting area and there is less time to react if another boat alters course. After the start yes you are going a lot faster but you also have a lot more room and time.

 

 

just my 2 cents worth.

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Matty... that's bang on and the reason we have had the multi's start last.

They can sleep in

They can arrive late after the congestion has gone

We figured it was easier for them to pass boats on the racetrack than play dodgems in the prestart area because every other division won't keep out of the way!

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I can imagine 888 having some trouble weaving through 200 boats to get a decent start. Its probably fair to say that most of us don't have a full understanding of the amount of room required, and sailing angles, speed, run up room desired, etc for the multis.

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Matty... that's bang on and the reason we have had the multi's start last.

They can sleep in

They can arrive late after the congestion has gone

We figured it was easier for them to pass boats on the racetrack than play dodgems in the prestart area because every other division won't keep out of the way!

 

All valid points but in most racing we do the Multis start first and generally you get the fastest boats away first.

The A and B div go before all the small boats and don't have to pick there way through.

On Saturday two S34's were near Rangi Light but actually wanted to go towards Tiri whereas we wanted to keep going toward Rakino.

They had the rights to tack in front of us as we were on port but it was an unnecessarily close call.

There was also a 40' somerthing cruiser that also was going to Tiri but I'd assumed it was in B div so had taken my eye off for a few moments.

 

Anytime one shore is favoured after the start, as in get out of the tide, there is a large congestion of boats with the same idea.

If you have fast boats weaving through it makes it even worse,

where as if the slower boats start last you are going to minimise the overlap of the fleets.

 

I like the Coastal, Winter and Summer series races where we start first.

We have less prestart issues in those than we had shortly after each start (of some races) in the Simrad. Bear in mind also there were around 14 multis sailing one race or more and that number is on the rise.

 

I'm also very interested in the views of some of the smaller boats because we certainly aren't out to spoil their races buty we can affect some of them worse than others.

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we, the Townson 32, being given a hard time chose small boat because we fitted there on handicap, wanted to try extras for the first time and didn't want an 80+ mile last race. at the end of the day Rev Blues you beat us on handicap in all three races, line in one and won the series!! yes there was upwind which we love but i did seem to notice a lot of downwind/off the wind stuff where all the light weight flyers kicked our butts.

 

Aren't the division based on handicaps anyway which seemed to sort a lot of it out?

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My two cents worth on a couple of points:

- Happy for the multi's to go first, we're confident we can keep out of their way before the start (haven't usually got to the startline by then anyway!). While we enjoy admiring them as they go through our fleet, the green machine and others did (without meaning to) affect our very tenuous position off the start in the lighter airs of the first race (photo attached). Still, they don't seem to impact on us for very long!

 

- Can't see the problem for the bigger boats to be in the Smallboat fleet if they're within the PHRF limit. As Pott Black noted it's a good way for those boats to get into it without having to enter a cruising division. While the Smallboat fleet might have originally been set up for the Upto26 fleet, there weren't that many of those size boats competing and the division would have been half the size if you exclude Marauders, Twilights, Farr 920s etc. Each type of boat can have its day, and although we're probably the slowest we've enjoyed seeing if we can sail well enough to hold our time against the bigger or lighter boats - usually more difficult when its windier or if planing conditions exist, but easier if its lighter or if there is a park-up somewhere.

SSANZ Race 1.jpg

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Multi's starting first is probably fine, but in a drifter you could expect the start area to be pretty busy. Remember the abandoned start of the S60 two years ago? If you weren't tucked against the wharf end of the line you were going to be a non-starter, and the only way the shorthaul fleet could get there would have been motoring into the start are while the longhaul boats were starting.

 

This is not so much of a problem with starts from Northern Leading.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I will start by thanking SSANZ for another great series. This is the first one that I have managed to complete all 3 races and loved them all (even the third one with its challenges).

 

I dont disagree with Engery that it might be time to have a look at the divisions and have another split. It is always going to be really hard for a handicapper to deal with boats that are that different, and from the old heavy camp it is so depressing watching the light boats cruise past us with such ease once they get to crack sheet.

 

I do small boat because I have very little interest in going around little barrier in a Whiting 29. I think we are going to see more of the 28-30 foot boats dropping down to small boat because of that and maybe now is the time to think about another option. I know Short circuit changed to small boat for the last race because he did not want to go that far and Big Bickies was the same.

 

Maybe there could be another division that the old heavy boats can combine. Make some of us wimpy guys go up a bit and maybe the Farr 9.2's could come down a little. I am sure there are plenty of people out there that could come up with some interesting courses for us :D

 

What ever happens it is all about trying to get more boats out racing so if we can find something that will motivate some more people to turn up bring it on.

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Think for divisions such as small boat, whilst there's a deal of merit in widening the criteria that allows boats in as SSANZ has done, SSANZ may want to consider criteria based on both size and handicap. For example, (1) handicap 700 or less or (2) handicap 735 or less and 9.5m loa or less.

 

Whether there's enough participation to allow a split of general small boat into light and traditional as they did with short haul, hard to say, would have said they needed a few more boats for that to work.

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Add a non tourer/ non surfer division to no extras in Short Haul. Boats like Revolution and Nevenka dropped down to Small Boat course because we were sick of racing in the same division as the 14m Elliots and O'Sinnermans of the world. We asked for a separate division but the small boat no extras was created at a .8 cutoff.

I suggest dropping that cutoff back to .74 for Small Boat course and set up an .810 and below no extras. This would get Northbound and Nevenka out and maybe a few others might step up to Short Haul. I suspect we might encourage a few 1020s or Stewarts back too.

In reality the only reason we went spins this year was because we thought going small boat course was detrimental to boats trying 2 handed for the first time.

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Ok points to take to committee.

 

1, Divisions

2, Courses

3, Starting order

4, No extras/cruising Divs

 

1; Is the multi fleet prepared to be split into 8.5s and open yet ?

Look at Sh and Sb both having traditional and light splits ?

 

2; How would you all feel about having say 10 different courses and the start boat displaying a letter eg, A,B,C,D,E,F at the five minute gun for the track to be sailed by that division.

This info could be broadcast on VHF 77 at 0830 hrs also.

Then consideration could be given to the type of boat in a class. Or would you prefer to know where your going the week before ?

 

3; I was on the start boat this year after doing this series for the last 7 so a different perspective.

There are a lot of boats around the starting area from 0845 to 0915 and normally in a traditonal Longhaul div 2 boat I am amazed by the room the multis use to wind up, I would always keep clear of other boats starting but what I consider room without being to far away to get there for my start would leave no room for the multis to run through IMHO, also at Westhaven you maybe get a lot more boats coming out closer to there start time but at Northern leading you need to be there.

 

4; Small boat cruising has grown nicely in its 2 years and maybe there is room for a Longhaul cruising now also to get the large cruisers out of shorthaul as I feel they are putting some off.

And also maybe the Hanses should race in a general cruising div with a div within it ?

 

Feel free to add to this as Cameron said above next year is the 21th so we are planing on making it big.

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How would you all feel about having say 10 different courses and the start boat displaying a letter eg, A,B,C,D,E,F at the five minute gun for the track to be sailed by that division.

This info could be broadcast on VHF 77 at 0830 hrs also.

Then consideration could be given to the type of boat in a class. Or would you prefer to know where your going the week before ?

 

I would prefer to know maybe a day (the night) before, once forecasts have been taken into consideration! But before getting on board the boat.

 

Worst case, rattle it down to two possible courses, but as with this year for the short haul whether we were going round little barrier or following the upwind was going to make a massive difference.

 

Good luck & thanks :thumbup:

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It's a wet horrible day so figured I'd start working on next years B&G Simrad NOR etc for discussion at the next committee meeting.

 

I see alot of comments about creating new divisions... personally I'm more in favour of going the other way. Less divisions so that there is greater competition to win.

 

Looking at results and numbers I'm pretty happy with the LH1 and LH2 split. Unfortunately some PHRF's place certain boats on the opposite side of the cut to what I may think... but this only affects 3-4 boats.

 

Shorthaul... Pretty happy but think the S34's and F1020's should merge into 1 division. Results show very even boat for boat racing between them anyway.

 

Cruising Divisions... reasonable entries in each division but not enough to split into further divisions

 

Smallboat... This is a problem area. I'm thinking now that the under 26' foot association has imploded that it is all scored on PHRF with 2 divisions. One for traditional heavier displacements... ie Trackers, Marauders, Reactors, Lotus', etc

Other division for Ross's, Elliotts etc. Pied Pipers and F727's to fit in to keep division numbers pretty even.

 

Courses...

Who's in favour of reversing the format ? Longest race first ?

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Longest race 2nd maybe? Gives everyone a chance to get their shite together in R1 and be better prepared for the longest, especially if the weather plays bitchy.

 

Define what a sport boat is.

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