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Life Jackets


Scotty3934

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Hey OC, as an aside its time to change your signature - the 2012 vintage is well done and dusted. Vines like a little water at the right time so having all the rivers, lakes etc dry up is not going to help, wont help the other primary producers either. Water control is critical to good grapes - take it from me, grew up in the industry with plenty of Intl. Golds and a few trophies under the belt. Pleased I'm no longer in the industry.

 

You probably want to change it on your Vodafone prepay a/c as well. :wave:

Off topic again EE...

 

You won the golds EE or the company you worked for?

 

OC's signature makes more sense than the name on your boat ... to me. :lol:

 

reply to that on your Skinny topup :D

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When it comes to life jackets and life rafts you buy the best with all the options covered no matter what the cost. Cut front on whisky, rum and buying feemales drinks and dinner. Hence you will never be dead meat.

 

I never mentioned price at all. Price is not a high priority for safety gear decisions for me.

 

Thinking that your lifejacket or liferaft, however good they may be, will mean that you'll never be dead meat is, in my opinion, a little naive.

 

I believe that safety at sea needs to be a multi level protective approach and a lifejacket (automatic inflation or not) is the last line of defence. I'd rather stay on the boat than go in the water and I approach my ocean sailing from that mindset. If I do go in the water, I believe that I have a very, very slim chance of surviving under most conditions in the open ocean (coastal is a slightly different matter). I don't care whether my body is ever recovered or not.

 

For me and the way I sail and am likely to sail in the foreseeable future an automatically inflating lifejacket is not an advantage over a manually inflating lifejacket. This is something I have thought about in some detail.

 

 

Disagree So lets agree to disagree.

 

Your No 1 rule never leave the boat. You hit a submerged object - gapping hole. Gurgle Gurgle. Davy jones locker 14 you. Dead meat.

If I do go in the water, I believe that I have a very, very slim chance of surviving under most conditions in the open ocean

 

Believe that you will almost believe any thing.

 

Life jacket. hydrostatic with AIS and personel location beacon 404 - attached or in your jacket and you are in a search and rescue area in tropical waters - you can't help but be found unless they find some excuse like they did with the Australian Kayaker, australia to NZ crossing. In the 2nd world war persons survived 4 or more days in tropical waters.

 

Trying to convince posters / members with your mindset is irresponsible.

 

The manual verses hydrostatic has been answered. hydrostatic is a Manual inflating jacket with pressure mechanism to automatically inflate it. AIS additional for boats to locate / see your position in the water via radar - GPS co ord - from a distance especially if it's your own boat and is or searching boats for that matter AIS receiver freindly. - no hours grid searcging for you. Then E.P.I.R.B. signal as well via search and rescue. As a posed to you in the water with injuries and cannot activate your manual jacket through forced evacuation with no other options. Dead meat Grinna. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :lol: :lol: :lol: :crazy: :crazy: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: To the top in davie jones locker left hand side.

 

Some people do value their lifes to be worth more than $1600 or so to live a tell the story - morning.glory.

 

 

 

 

:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :crazy:

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OC there are a lot of very, very experienced ocean sailors who have some views that you'd probably not agree with. Some of them don't sail with a liferaft :shock: :shock: ... not for financial reasons, but because they don't believe that a liferaft improves their safety or their chances of survival.

 

You have all sorts of scenarios in your head where you can justify automatically inflating lifejackets. If that's what makes you feel safe, then go for it. Fill your boots, but you'll never convince me that your way is the only way and that every other opinion is wrong or "irresponsible".

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The manual verses hydrostatic has been answered. hydrostatic is a Manual inflating jacket with pressure mechanism to automatically inflate it. AIS additional for boats to locate / see your position in the water via radar - GPS co ord - from a distance especially if it's your own boat and is or searching boats for that matter AIS receiver freindly. - no hours grid searcging for you.
Hang on here, you're giving people the wrong impression, something you yourself said is irresponsible. And with safety gear, come on tidy up your act please.

 

A auto lifejacket using the usual bikkie disc thingy can be opened manually also. Knot a thing wrong with those as long as, in my opinion from experience, you are on a big boat, aren't having to loonie around bent in to small corners and you don't have big waves dumping on you. If I had a 60ft cruiser I'd probably have a auto like that.

 

The hydrostatic version you are talking about is like the auto above but the hydrostatic switch works on pressure so once you are at a set depth it'll trip inflating the jacket. I'd be very surprised this doesn't have a manual option also. Why you would use on like this I have no idea really as noted earlier in the thread. I can't see any time I'd want one like this, it makes little sense.

 

Manual, well that's pretty obvious. These are the best to use, IMO, on smaller boats where you are in tight corners and have the likely hood of visiting the green room a lot. That's me and my boat so I went manual as I see it over all way safer option for me. It still has downsides but if I spent the say 1st 3 days in sh*t weather and rain there is a chance the jacket could inflate prematurely, I am assured and believe the auto opening devices are way less prone to that today then they used to be. Anyway if that jacket inflates early I'll them have the equivalent to an old kapoc lifejacket for the duration of the voyage. I wouldn't wear it so I'd have no jacket at all, knot that safe don't ya think OC.

 

AIS is knot seen by radar, a AIS plot can be over laid on a radar screen, amongst others, but if you use your radar to look for a AIS beacon you'll die of old age in the attempt. AIS and radar are 2 very differing things. AIS uses VHF so I'd expect a lifejacket with AIS to have pretty sh*t range and only be good if the SAR boat is very close to you already, a 'fine tuning' option one could say. I can't see the point of having AIS on a lifejacket, I think that's just total wankery, at this technological moment, and just yet another thing to go wrong or have flat batteries when you need it most. I wouldn't have AIS on any jacket I'd use. I have though, on occasions, stuck a VHF in the pocket.

 

Hell I think we should be asking you where to send flowers. I'd expect you to be well kitted up............. when the SAR team retrieves your body from the seabed as it was held down by so may gadgets dangling off you life jacket. Mind you your body was well decomposed, one of the SAR team read your post and spent a week fruitlessly searching for your AIS signal with his radar and coffee maker.

 

Manual inflate, or a auto if that floats your boat, with a personal EPIRP and common sense. You don't need anything more. Oh unless you are solo in which case you also want a auto-driver cut-out dodacky thingamabob.

 

In my opinion, with safety stuff keep it simple and you'll live longer.

 

Off topic again EE...
Deflecting again JP ;)

If you hand it out it will come back. If you don't like it coming back then don't hand it out in the 1st place.

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If anyone is that risk adverse they need every base covered I doubt they could get out of bed in the morning.

 

Or not get into bed at all. More people die in bed than anywhere else. It's a very dangerous place. :wink:

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The manual verses hydrostatic has been answered. hydrostatic is a Manual inflating jacket with pressure mechanism to automatically inflate it. AIS additional for boats to locate / see your position in the water via radar - GPS co ord - from a distance especially if it's your own boat and is or searching boats for that matter AIS receiver freindly. - no hours grid searcging for you.
Hang on here, you're giving people the wrong impression, something you yourself said is irresponsible. And with safety gear, come on tidy up your act please.

 

A auto lifejacket using the usual bikkie disc thingy can be opened manually also. Knot a thing wrong with those as long as, in my opinion from experience, you are on a big boat, aren't having to loonie around bent in to small corners and you don't have big waves dumping on you. If I had a 60ft cruiser I'd probably have a auto like that.

 

The hydrostatic version you are talking about is like the auto above but the hydrostatic switch works on pressure so once you are at a set depth it'll trip inflating the jacket. I'd be very surprised this doesn't have a manual option also. Why you would use on like this I have no idea really as noted earlier in the thread. I can't see any time I'd want one like this, it makes little sense.

 

Manual, well that's pretty obvious. These are the best to use, IMO, on smaller boats where you are in tight corners and have the likely hood of visiting the green room a lot. That's me and my boat so I went manual as I see it over all way safer option for me. It still has downsides but if I spent the say 1st 3 days in sh*t weather and rain there is a chance the jacket could inflate prematurely, I am assured and believe the auto opening devices are way less prone to that today then they used to be. Anyway if that jacket inflates early I'll them have the equivalent to an old kapoc lifejacket for the duration of the voyage. I wouldn't wear it so I'd have no jacket at all, knot that safe don't ya think OC.

 

AIS is knot seen by radar, a AIS plot can be over laid on a radar screen, amongst others, but if you use your radar to look for a AIS beacon you'll die of old age in the attempt. AIS and radar are 2 very differing things. AIS uses VHF so I'd expect a lifejacket with AIS to have pretty sh*t range and only be good if the SAR boat is very close to you already, a 'fine tuning' option one could say. I can't see the point of having AIS on a lifejacket, I think that's just total wankery, at this technological moment, and just yet another thing to go wrong or have flat batteries when you need it most. I wouldn't have AIS on any jacket I'd use. I have though, on occasions, stuck a VHF in the pocket.

 

Hell I think we should be asking you where to send flowers. I'd expect you to be well kitted up............. when the SAR team retrieves your body from the seabed as it was held down by so may gadgets dangling off you life jacket. Mind you your body was well decomposed, one of the SAR team read your post and spent a week fruitlessly searching for your AIS signal with his radar and coffee maker.

 

Manual inflate, or a auto if that floats your boat, with a personal EPIRP and common sense. You don't need anything more. Oh unless you are solo in which case you also want a auto-driver cut-out dodacky thingamabob.

 

In my opinion, with safety stuff keep it simple and you'll live longer.

 

Off topic again EE...
Deflecting again JP ;)

If you hand it out it will come back. If you don't like it coming back then don't hand it out in the 1st place.

Dribble Dribble. and more Dribble.

 

 

Isn't overlay not over now on radar using your radar. On which piece on equipement do you use for the overlay if it,s not a radar screen or chart plotter screen. They are all inter faced with the splitter, they also go via vhf shore stations and depends how high your vhf ariel is. Some boats have their vhf ariel on top on there 87 ft masts or even higher. Don,t get the connection between the size on your boat and the jacket that is purchased. I have spoken via vhf on a vessel with the shore station 120 from shore. Answer the shore station mast was 200 ft above sea level and the vessls vhf ariel was 93 ft above sea level.

 

Your hydrostatic para has been covered in numerous posts so your quotation is wasted energy and Dribble for the sake on Dribble. there was nothing new in that para that has not been said in other posts.

 

 

It's down, not down now! but down to the individual to decide. Not some person like Not you to dictate to them or even state in such strong terms you don't need. My approach is if do go over board the more things you have going for you the better. Some people may not be able to operate a manual jacket once in the water and the more things that helps them find you the more likely hood they will find you.

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The manual verses hydrostatic has been answered. hydrostatic is a Manual inflating jacket with pressure mechanism to automatically inflate it. AIS additional for boats to locate / see your position in the water via radar - GPS co ord - from a distance especially if it's your own boat and is or searching boats for that matter AIS receiver freindly. - no hours grid searcging for you.
Hang on here, you're giving people the wrong impression, something you yourself said is irresponsible. And with safety gear, come on tidy up your act please.

 

A auto lifejacket using the usual bikkie disc thingy can be opened manually also. Knot a thing wrong with those as long as, in my opinion from experience, you are on a big boat, aren't having to loonie around bent in to small corners and you don't have big waves dumping on you. If I had a 60ft cruiser I'd probably have a auto like that.

 

The hydrostatic version you are talking about is like the auto above but the hydrostatic switch works on pressure so once you are at a set depth it'll trip inflating the jacket. I'd be very surprised this doesn't have a manual option also. Why you would use on like this I have no idea really as noted earlier in the thread. I can't see any time I'd want one like this, it makes little sense.

 

Manual, well that's pretty obvious. These are the best to use, IMO, on smaller boats where you are in tight corners and have the likely hood of visiting the green room a lot. That's me and my boat so I went manual as I see it over all way safer option for me. It still has downsides but if I spent the say 1st 3 days in sh*t weather and rain there is a chance the jacket could inflate prematurely, I am assured and believe the auto opening devices are way less prone to that today then they used to be. Anyway if that jacket inflates early I'll them have the equivalent to an old kapoc lifejacket for the duration of the voyage. I wouldn't wear it so I'd have no jacket at all, knot that safe don't ya think OC.

 

AIS is knot seen by radar, a AIS plot can be over laid on a radar screen, amongst others, but if you use your radar to look for a AIS beacon you'll die of old age in the attempt. AIS and radar are 2 very differing things. AIS uses VHF so I'd expect a lifejacket with AIS to have pretty sh*t range and only be good if the SAR boat is very close to you already, a 'fine tuning' option one could say. I can't see the point of having AIS on a lifejacket, I think that's just total wankery, at this technological moment, and just yet another thing to go wrong or have flat batteries when you need it most. I wouldn't have AIS on any jacket I'd use. I have though, on occasions, stuck a VHF in the pocket.

 

Hell I think we should be asking you where to send flowers. I'd expect you to be well kitted up............. when the SAR team retrieves your body from the seabed as it was held down by so may gadgets dangling off you life jacket. Mind you your body was well decomposed, one of the SAR team read your post and spent a week fruitlessly searching for your AIS signal with his radar and coffee maker.

 

Manual inflate, or a auto if that floats your boat, with a personal EPIRP and common sense. You don't need anything more. Oh unless you are solo in which case you also want a auto-driver cut-out dodacky thingamabob.

 

In my opinion, with safety stuff keep it simple and you'll live longer.

 

Off topic again EE...
Deflecting again JP ;)

If you hand it out it will come back. If you don't like it coming back then don't hand it out in the 1st place.

 

Earth calling KM come in KM :roll:

 

no problems with EE coming back at me as hard as he like.

 

But when you poke your nose in i find that funny as :lol:

 

bitter about something KM? :D

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The manual verses hydrostatic has been answered. hydrostatic is a Manual inflating jacket with pressure mechanism to automatically inflate it. AIS additional for boats to locate / see your position in the water via radar - GPS co ord - from a distance especially if it's your own boat and is or searching boats for that matter AIS receiver freindly. - no hours grid searcging for you.
Hang on here, you're giving people the wrong impression, something you yourself said is irresponsible. And with safety gear, come on tidy up your act please.

 

A auto lifejacket using the usual bikkie disc thingy can be opened manually also. Knot a thing wrong with those as long as, in my opinion from experience, you are on a big boat, aren't having to loonie around bent in to small corners and you don't have big waves dumping on you. If I had a 60ft cruiser I'd probably have a auto like that.

 

The hydrostatic version you are talking about is like the auto above but the hydrostatic switch works on pressure so once you are at a set depth it'll trip inflating the jacket. I'd be very surprised this doesn't have a manual option also. Why you would use on like this I have no idea really as noted earlier in the thread. I can't see any time I'd want one like this, it makes little sense.

 

Manual, well that's pretty obvious. These are the best to use, IMO, on smaller boats where you are in tight corners and have the likely hood of visiting the green room a lot. That's me and my boat so I went manual as I see it over all way safer option for me. It still has downsides but if I spent the say 1st 3 days in sh*t weather and rain there is a chance the jacket could inflate prematurely, I am assured and believe the auto opening devices are way less prone to that today then they used to be. Anyway if that jacket inflates early I'll them have the equivalent to an old kapoc lifejacket for the duration of the voyage. I wouldn't wear it so I'd have no jacket at all, knot that safe don't ya think OC.

 

AIS is knot seen by radar, a AIS plot can be over laid on a radar screen, amongst others, but if you use your radar to look for a AIS beacon you'll die of old age in the attempt. AIS and radar are 2 very differing things. AIS uses VHF so I'd expect a lifejacket with AIS to have pretty sh*t range and only be good if the SAR boat is very close to you already, a 'fine tuning' option one could say. I can't see the point of having AIS on a lifejacket, I think that's just total wankery, at this technological moment, and just yet another thing to go wrong or have flat batteries when you need it most. I wouldn't have AIS on any jacket I'd use. I have though, on occasions, stuck a VHF in the pocket.

 

Hell I think we should be asking you where to send flowers. I'd expect you to be well kitted up............. when the SAR team retrieves your body from the seabed as it was held down by so may gadgets dangling off you life jacket. Mind you your body was well decomposed, one of the SAR team read your post and spent a week fruitlessly searching for your AIS signal with his radar and coffee maker.

 

Manual inflate, or a auto if that floats your boat, with a personal EPIRP and common sense. You don't need anything more. Oh unless you are solo in which case you also want a auto-driver cut-out dodacky thingamabob.

 

In my opinion, with safety stuff keep it simple and you'll live longer.

 

Off topic again EE...
Deflecting again JP ;)

If you hand it out it will come back. If you don't like it coming back then don't hand it out in the 1st place.

Dribble Dribble. and more Dribble.

 

 

Isn't overlay not over now on radar using your radar. On which piece on equipement do you use for the overlay if it,s not a radar screen or chart plotter screen. They are all inter faced with the splitter, they also go via vhf shore stations and depends how high your vhf ariel is. Some boats have their vhf ariel on top on there 87 ft masts or even higher. Don,t get the connection between the size on your boat and the jacket that is purchased. I have spoken via vhf on a vessel with the shore station 120 from shore. Answer the shore station mast was 200 ft above sea level and the vessls vhf ariel was 93 ft above sea level.

 

Your hydrostatic para has been covered in numerous posts so your quotation is wasted energy and Dribble for the sake on Dribble. there was nothing new in that para that has not been said in other posts.

 

 

It's down, not down now! but down to the individual to decide. Not some person like Not you to dictate to them or even state in such strong terms you don't need. My approach is if do go over board the more things you have going for you the better. Some people may not be able to operate a manual jacket once in the water and the more things that helps them find you the more likely hood they will find you.

 

 

Purrrr fect OC :thumbup: :lol:

 

OC you forget you are dealing with the MACHO MEN of NZ Sailing. :lol:

 

Rather than mitigate risk and use technology to save their bacon they would rather risk theirs and rescuers lives / time / and money searching for their sorry arse's.

 

Its a bit like wearing jandel's while mowing the lawn... soooo Kiwi!

 

Then they moan about all the rules and insurance price rises imposed when it goes to custard.

 

That guy who disapeered of the east coast when he fell overboard would probably be alive if he was...

 

1. Tethered to the boat

 

2. Had a life jacket that was manual and Auto

 

3. Had a personal epirb.

 

4. Had a NON MACHO / Cavalier attitude.

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Sorry but I just deleted the reply to OC after seeing JP's fallen back into diarrhea mode.

Good luck with being a human Swiss Army knife OC.

 

I just hope newbies don't read and believe some of the things you write, it could easily kill them.

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Sorry but I just deleted the reply to OC after seeing JP's fallen back into diarrhea mode.

Good luck with being a human Swiss Army knife OC.

 

I just hope newbies don't read and believe some of the things you write, it could easily kill them.

 

 

i'll re type it for you Km...

 

Jeez JP is right with that post and we are acting like macho men and OC has a very very good point to make.

 

 

If only the older members of this forum would let him have an opinion.

 

KM. what is wrong with mine and OC's opinions? i think OC makes a good point and he's is right if you follow good seamanship and risk management process/systems.

 

KM do you have fuses in your meter board?

 

Do you use double insulated equipment at work?

 

I would have thought being safe was a priority and minimizing risk very important.

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KM. what is wrong with mine and OC's opinions? Nothing what so ever. I will fight for the right for the pair of you to make informed comments and opinions i think OC makes a good point and he's is right if you follow good seamanship and risk management process/systems. Correct but he has no idea what he's taking about in some areas so he a danger to himself and to others.

 

KM do you have fuses in your meter board? No idea and don't care.

 

Do you use double insulated equipment at work? No idea and don't care

 

I would have thought being safe was a priority and minimizing risk very important. 100% correct that's why both of you need to exhibit at least basic knowledge of some of the stuff you are talking about. In this thread both of you have exhibited an extreme lack of even basic working knowledge of important safety gear. The 2 of you are dangerous but then by the time you realise that you'll be dead. I just hope you don't take others with you

This reply brought to you in the hope you'll read it then research further just to make sure you don't believe everything those two say as some of it is likely to leave your kids without a parent.

 

JP, if you want to engage in verbal wankery that's fine but don't do it in a subject that involves lives, that's f**king stupid.

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In the market for a new Lifejacket / Harness. Whats the thoughts on the best inflatable for racing.

So Scotty, serious drift with regard to life jackets for racing but maybe you'll get something from it. Adding to the drift a little, and since you asked about harnesses, PBO magazine have done a couple of articles about tether lines (Summer 2012 and October 2012) following the death of the skipper on Lion in June 2011 when he went overboard at the bow and was not noticed by the crew until a genoa was being retrieved. He was tethered and life jacket had inflated but he drowned being dragged face first through the water. Testing by PBO showed surviving being dragged at anything over 2 knots for any length of time with a front clipped tether was difficult, but the shorter the tether (ie. try to keep clear of the water after going over) the better. The Oct12 edition promo'd a harness/inflatable jacket with a mechanism routing the tether out the back of the jacket which tows you on your back keeping the face clear of the water.

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.......glad that my life dosnt depend on the internet.

 

Dont care about the previous 60 billion posts.......

This is MY opinion.

 

First.. have them and use them.

Second..if you can afford it get auto trigger.

Third..Not falling overboard shits all over inflating a life jacket.....but sh*t happens.

Fourth...there is a huge amount of stupid crap writen about what is common sense safety. If you care about peoples lives, and yes YOU the WRITER are responsible...people who are new to sailing do read this.

Its about the most common succsesful outcome...NOT some rare possibility.

 

Seat belts in cars have caused a very few bad outcomes, and A lot of good. I would politely suggest that life jackets are the same.

 

Set your boat up and use tight inboard Jack lines and harness.

Use the very best life jacket and its technology that you can afford.

 

I would love to have way better.........

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sent to the naughty file

 

 

 

My PFD and elasticated tri-tether are 12 years old, from Safety at Sea - one of their own branded harnesses. (It is the one I've used on Airship.) The service they offered when I bought it, the advice they gave, and the subsequent after sales service and servicing, in both Auckland and Wellington (through their agents in Seaview - Wellington Providors I think they are called) has been faultless. If and when I ever need a replacement harness or tether I will be going STRAIGHT to the guys at Safety at Sea. I doubt I will even look around.

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Sorry for my excitement people. I had a cousin die and my wife very very close to, both directly because of lifejackets so it's a twitchy subject for me. If my cousin wasn't wearing a lifejacket the Corner reckoned he'd be alive today. Trapped under the boat and couldn't get out, very similar to the Wa's close call when she got trapped as some unneeded bullshit on the jacket got caught on the boat when it went over taking her under with it.

 

Everyone in entitled to their opinions but some of what was being said makes zero logical sense, the hydrostatic option for one example, it could easily take a person 5 mins or more to sink to only 1mt and set off the hydro. Having AIS so radar can see it as another, hello.... that's just 100% wrong leading to a 100% total false sense of security, that is no good for no one.

 

sent to the naughty file

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