Fiji to New Zealand crew wanted

[liveaboard 0]

URGENT Fiji to New Zealand additional crew wanted, departing Suva between 26th October and November 1st dependent on weather and crew availability. 50 foot ketch with experienced captain. Share expenses and watches. novices welcome. Duration of passage 11 to 14 days plus option of cruising NZ islands before arriving Auckland. See more at liveaboardsailing dot com email liveaboardsailing at gmail.com or liveaboardtropicbird at gmail dot com

[Guest]

Outed on another forum running an illegal charter (by his own admission) business. I really get tired of these guys stealing business from legitimate operators. It is not shared expenses, he is charging passengers a premium and adding additional operating costs. Don't let him do the same thing when he gets to NZ.

[Guest]

Yes this is true. Keep well away.

 

Another scam is these people who sail the world under the guise of being a charity donating to a cause like child poverty or underprivileged children.

 

They take donations, which pay,s for their trip, and donate a very small percentage to the charity.

 

Spotted three kiwi's doing this in Europe (as a group I suspect). One was praised in a magazine for being a philithropic "go getter" but was outed as a greedy thief taking money under false pretenses.

[Guest]

From his website:

 

Fees are 35 dollars a day, 245 per week per person, this includes food eaten aboard, fuel , water and all those domestic items like toilet rolls, cooking, oil, cooking gas.

 

Seems about right.

[Megwyn 2]

Another scam is these people who sail the world under the guise of being a charity donating to a cause like child poverty or underprivileged children.

 

They take donations, which pay for their trip, and donate a very small percentage to the charity.

 

Legally I think (and I may be wrong) they only have to give 30% to the named recipient of their charitable fundraising in order to be a recognised charity.

 

Robbery I think too JP.

[Guest]

From his website:

 

Fees are 35 dollars a day, 245 per week per person, this includes food eaten aboard, fuel , water and all those domestic items like toilet rolls, cooking, oil, cooking gas.

 

Seems about right.

Seems bloody excessive. He's paying for his boat, not recovering costs. Look a little deeper into the contract.

[Guest]

Back in the 70's and 80's crew contributions were running around $20 per day, that's why I didn't think that unreasonable. At $35 pd I don't think he's making a profit.

If you charter a 50 ft sailboat from a charter co that sleeps 8 it will cost say $1000pd or $125 per person per day.

We looked at what we would ask of crew to go on an offshore trip and came up with something similar.

 

Unless he has some other hidden costs - I was in a hurry and didn't read everything.

[Megwyn 2]

Is it normal for crew to pay

cruising permits and entry fees

for the boat?

[NZL3551 0]

Is it normal for crew to pay

cruising permits and entry fees

for the boat?

[Guest]

Look at this link...

 

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20749

 

it can be free and they even pay your airfares there.

 

this would be a good tripon a nice boat with a pro skipper.

[Megwyn 2]

Yes - but he IS looking for someone with previous experience JP - the OP of this thread is happy to take novices.

 

There is a difference. . .

[ex TL systems 63]

if he is up front and asking for 35 a day I think that is reasonable[ even though I would not have applied] after all it is up to the crew to decide what they are happy with and they don,t have to go.[or have a lot of experience] I am doing a similiar trip back from Fiji on a cat and are happy to pay my airfare up with food paid for by the owners. They do not need to offer more as I am keen to do the trip on a good cruising cat, if it was a mono I would not have applied but I am sure others would. In the end it is all about supply and demand and going on someone elses boat is a good way to learn and decide if you really want to put the necessary time and money into going cruising on your own boat. We can all decide under what terms our crewing services are available and for me that would depend on the trip , the boat, the people and what else I could be doing at the time. So if anyone has a nice cat that needs sailing somewhere at only $100 a day plus expenses and don,t mind if it I make a few stops along the way.....

[liveaboard 0]

Wow you guys are really hauling me across the coals!

To quantify there are no extras over the 35 dollars, I pay for the boat entry fees and my immigration fees.

Why is it that there have been so many people willingly paying my fee? I have a product and they agree to pay what I ask, I am sure others have seen the product and don't agree its for them

Why shouldn't I charge for people to share my space and have a roof over their heads, share my experience perhaps if they want teach them about sailing, da de da

If someone offers to take you out for a sail don't you offer to bring food or share the cost of food or some contribution? Is it offensive to you that I have quantified the cost for the opportunity? I take people from one country to another wouldn't the airfare cost or can one get that at a discount if you ask nicely.

I could go on but whats the point take it or leave it

[Guest]

Yes - but he IS looking for someone with previous experience JP - the OP of this thread is happy to take novices.

 

There is a difference. . .

 

That's true. But why is he advertising on a website full of experienced sailors.?

 

Mind you there are plenty of novices on here from time to time.

[Guest]

Wow you guys are really hauling me across the coals!

To quantify there are no extras over the 35 dollars, I pay for the boat entry fees and my immigration fees.

Why is it that there have been so many people willingly paying my fee? I have a product and they agree to pay what I ask, I am sure others have seen the product and don't agree its for them

Why shouldn't I charge for people to share my space and have a roof over their heads, share my experience perhaps if they want teach them about sailing, da de da

If someone offers to take you out for a sail don't you offer to bring food or share the cost of food or some contribution? Is it offensive to you that I have quantified the cost for the opportunity? I take people from one country to another wouldn't the airfare cost or can one get that at a discount if you ask nicely.

I could go on but whats the point take it or leave it

And you don't operate this system within the island groups you visit??? I've had a bit of experience seeing these sort of operators thinking the SP is full of boneheads who don't have a clue. Rest assured, the various authorities view any sort of payment other than shared food etc. to be charter. They generally have a problem with any payment but it is hard to enforce so they have a rule of thumb that if the service is advertised any any way it is a charter. You are essentially running a backpacker charter service and as such are taking jobs away from the locals.

[Guest]

Pete, people have been taking "paying crew" around the Pacific for as long as I can remember, $35/day is very close to what we calculated if we were to do the same and not at all unreasonable. No one has called anyone a bonehead or suggested that possibility. And I don't think he is stealing any jobs.

 

If someone were running a pirate charter operation I would agree with you, but can't see it here.

[Guest]

Pete, people have been taking "paying crew" around the Pacific for as long as I can remember, $35/day is very close to what we calculated if we were to do the same and not at all unreasonable. No one has called anyone a bonehead or suggested that possibility. And I don't think he is stealing any jobs.

 

If someone were running a pirate charter operation I would agree with you, but can't see it here.

Times have changed Ogre and the authorities are getting serious with these guys. Any attempt to recoup any fixed costs is seen as charter. US$35 a day??? Come on, we maintain our boat, eat drink and pay for all operational costs for less than that. This dude (and many others like him) is getting other people to pay for his boat at the expense of legitimate charter operators.

[Guest]

We have had exchange students in our house for the last several years. The school pays us about that and we figure we are running at a loss, but choose to have them anyway.

 

Yes we could live cheaper, and as cruisers we did, but when you have strangers aboard your attitude undergoes a subltle shift and you do end up spending more.

 

You may be right that the authorities' attitudes have changed - doesn't mean they are right.

And I still can't see how someone like this is taking away someone's job.

[Guest]

To quantify there are no extras over the 35 dollars, I pay for the boat entry fees and my immigration fees.

Per your website http://liveaboardsailing.com/crew-agree ... ement.html

"Current day rate = 35 dollars US a day

This includes meals prepared and eaten aboard and fuels

The shared extras are identified on the website but may include: passport entry fee, yacht entry fee, cruising permit fee, dinghy dock fee, marina fees, anchorage fees, water fees, etc."

Seems to be a bit of a conflict between these 2 statements, what is the truth?

If you are not operating a paid service within the island groups, why do passengers have to pay a portion of the cruising permit, dinghy dock, marina fees etc?

Also per your website http://liveaboardsailing.com/latest/pacific-2.html

"Next is a tour of the islands before Anthony has to fly back Stateside for some business. Spencer and I will try to solicit some passengers to come to Tahiti via the Tuamotus islands and carry on forever westward."

So you acknowledge you are operating a passenger service!!!

[Guest]

We have had exchange students in our house for the last several years. The school pays us about that and we figure we are running at a loss, but choose to have them anyway.

 

Yes we could live cheaper, and as cruisers we did, but when you have strangers aboard your attitude undergoes a subltle shift and you do end up spending more.

 

You may be right that the authorities' attitudes have changed - doesn't mean they are right.

And I still can't see how someone like this is taking away someone's job.

As I said, the times have changed. There are many grassroots, skippered charter boats operating in the SP now. They are often (but not exclusively) expat owned but employ many locals plus the usual trickle down stuff that is good for the boating industry in general. These businesses are often operating on very marginal returns and illegal operators impact directly on their livelihood. When I worked for a yachting agency in Fiji we saw all too often potential clients (primarily backpackers) would choose the illegal operator over the legit operator because they were undercutting. A typical low end, shared, skippered charter including food etc. for say 3 days would run to about FJ$150/day minimum 6 pax (note, this figure often includes a bit of booze AND they don't have to work). This equates roughly to US$75/day. So, US$35/day plus all the extras, say another 15 bucks means that this guy is undercutting by 33%. And you can bet your bottom dollar the safety, survey and certification requirements will be better for the legit operator.

The whole international passage thing is another thing altogether but these operators are running on very thin ice in terms of SOLAS and survey laws by arriving in any foreign port with paying passengers aboard.