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Oystr, the waterwise web site shows the Akl schools - pretty much in the higher income suburbs - nothing in Sth Auckland/Mangere/Onehunga etc.

 

Not blaming anyone by saying that. Just an observation. I know nothing about the waterwise programme.

 

There was a survey of intermediate schools a few years ago and it was amazing how many kids had NEVER BEEN to the BEACH! Thats NEVER.

 

Been to school & public pools but not the beach. And this is in Akl.

 

I've tried to find the report but my internet search skills have temporarily deserted me :lol:

 

 

And, you still can't change stupidity. All the waterwise programmes in the world will not stop stupid people doing stupid things.

 

And plenty of white people drown doing stupid things............ it ain't just a brown problem - and the stats confirm that.

Witness a certain boat running into Gypsy Rose........... no-one killed but came close. And these were "knowledgable" people!!!! :thumbdown:

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Oystr, the waterwise web site shows the Akl schools - pretty much in the higher income suburbs - nothing in Sth Auckland/Mangere/Onehunga etc.

 

Not blaming anyone by saying that. Just an observation. I know nothing about the waterwise programme.

 

There was a survey of intermediate schools a few years ago and it was amazing how many kids had NEVER BEEN to the BEACH! Thats NEVER.

 

Been to school & public pools but not the beach. And this is in Akl.

 

I've tried to find the report but my internet search skills have temporarily deserted me :lol:

 

Yep, I did say that there were probably a lot of schools not involved as well and some of that will be not being close to the facilities as well as the school choosing not to participate (not important to that community).

 

 

And, you still can't change stupidity. All the waterwise programmes in the world will not stop stupid people doing stupid things.

 

And plenty of white people drown doing stupid things............ it ain't just a brown problem - and the stats confirm that.

Witness a certain boat running into Gypsy Rose........... no-one killed but came close. And these were "knowledgable" people!!!! :thumbdown:

Well, there will always be those who have to study to be stupid, but education has to start somewhere, and Waterwise focusses on the young who will maybe take it on board.

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OYSTR, nice one and good to see they have some boaters in the WW up your way. We have some but most are mummys, some rather yummy, many of which don't know boats that well. But then the WW thing does teach to a method so it's knot hard to be a Instructor or handy helper. In fact most experienced yachties do sort of have to dumb down a bit to stay on plan in WW or they can confuse the yummy mummys easily.

 

It is a great system that if rolled out nationwide would be so good for our kids n many ways, one being more water aware.

 

Terry, I think there is a WW or a couple out Sth Akl way. To give the kids a fair crack you really do need a good 1/2 day a week, especially in bigger schools. It, or in ours, only the last year of primary plus the 2 at intermediate get to have a go and that is generally as there just isn't the capacity to do more at once. But as each year changes the next lot come thru giving all a go. So one WW really can only do 10 schools and it does require a certain amount, but very low level, cooperation between them all.

 

The Sth Akl comment is interesting and why I mentioned it was all funded by sources that are pretty much everywhere rather than any poorer/richer like divide. The Devo WW (the photo on the WW website is Devos) was is now very well established and quite old and due to that one small but very tenacious lady. There is no reason there couldn't be more just like her anywhere in NZ. I'd also think if one from a less well off area did try to kick off they would get more help than some others.

 

I hate to go this way but I do think if YNZ had invested the coin they have into the 'give it a go' programme into spreading WW further afield instead it would give better outcomes for everyone. I'm knot 100% sure but I get the impression WW and YNZ may knot have been mates for some reason a while back, silly dumb politics probably. While WW is knot a learn to sail thing as such it still does get kids sailing a boat by themselves when they may knot have even been on one before, many haven't. I do think grizzling about mussel farms is admirable but would that money be better spend on teaching NZers safer habits around water? I think it may just be.

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I was surprised when I was looking with work that non of the schools out in east Auckland have a water wise program. I was looking forward to helping young kids learn to sail and do fun water activities while doing my uni placement.

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I was surprised when I was looking with work that non of the schools out in east Auckland have a water wise program. I was looking forward to helping young kids learn to sail and do fun water activities while doing my uni placement.
All it takes is one sparked up person to knock on a few doors and 10 more schools may have a WW. There is no reason that person can't be a ginger :lol: :lol:

 

Good to see you were looking at offering your services S, NZ needs more people like you.

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Yes, I grew up at surf beach and was a swimmer, as was my family and as are my own children . But we were proactive and spent a lot of money on swimming lessons for them. So it always is a surprise in a way to hear of people who can't swim to save themselves in a country like this.

 

Here's an interesting little anectdote. You may have heard this yourself but if not speak to a granny or grandpa and ask them what the "New Zealand Death" is.

The New Zealand Death is death by drowning and is from settler and colonial times , lets say early 1800's on. Typically from people being drowned while trying to cross river mouths. It became a commonly reported occurence 'back home ' in J O E and made it into modern times . Not something you hear awareness of from post boomers.

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Yes, there is one at French Bay. I think the schools are Titirangi and Laingholm - not sure if Woodlands Park is in it or not. Waterwise is about water safety and touches on sailing, it isn't a sailing course.

 

I'm not surprised that so many kids can't swim. Organised lessons are expensive and many people don't have time or means to get to the pool. Ours go through lessons and we muck around at the water, but I still wouldn't say that my eldest, now six, would be able to 'save' herself if she fell overboard without a lifejacket. She'd probably panic and sink.

 

I am obviously very careful when we are around water but it would happen so quickly. Families don't have a lot of support these days and getting someone to go to the beach to help you watch the kids, isn't always possible.

 

Waterwise gives some sense of safety around the water but it's not enough by itself.

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Waterwise is a great way to teach kids to learn water safety but this wouln't have stopped these guys from drowning. What was missing was common sense. No amount legislation is going to protect people from their own stupidity. The debate here should not be about compulsory wearing of life jackets but why these guys chose to go out in an overloaded boat in conditions that were too rough for their vessel. In this case the life jackets would only have been the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

 

What's the bet that the coroners report will put the cause of death down to not wearning life jackets and recommend a legislation change (again).

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Waterwise is a great way to teach kids to learn water safety but this wouln't have stopped these guys from drowning. What was missing was common sense. No amount legislation is going to protect people from their own stupidity. The debate here should not be about compulsory wearing of life jackets but why these guys chose to go out in an overloaded boat in conditions that were too rough for their vessel. In this case the life jackets would only have been the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

 

What's the bet that the coroners report will put the cause of death down to not wearning life jackets and recommend a legislation change (again).

 

Why don't we have a coroner who says, "Two less idiots in this world,i f you are this stupid you might die"

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There has been an awful lot of effort put in by various community organisations, churches etc, all aimed at the Pacific Island community. The drownings caused by the people on boats, off rocks, and net fishing are all tragic and nearly all easily preventable.

I understand there is a piece on the next TV Tagata Pacific (sp?) programme.

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If drinking and driving, that kills 100's, has had millions upon millions of dollars thrown at it for many many years yet it still happens are we getting a little ahead of ourselves if we think we can stop 0.000018% of the population from be idiots?

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Why don't we have a coroner who says, "Two less idiots in this world, if you are this stupid you might die"

 

+1 :thumbup:

 

Obviously summer is comming and more runabouts will be used.

 

The arrogrance and stupidity shown on TV was incredible.

 

Problem of awareness could be solved overnight by Harbourmaster and police at the most popular boat ramps with a pile of clamps or handcuffs with the nearest boat chandler or Coastguard selling life jackets, buckets and flares. A team effort.

 

Boat inspected and if safety check fails, boat is clamped until equipment purchased or boat owner / skipper can be arrested / charged if equipment NOT purchased. Boat owner / skipper's choice and all intended crew / guests officially warned of skippers' liability.

 

Then if caught again big troubles!! especially if weather bad.

 

Obviously man power is an issue but I for one would be happy to be on a roster to do the checks, say bi-monthly if I', not sailing/racing.

My little bit to help Coastguard. Must pay this years sub!!

 

If we all did a little, job would be easily done.

 

Once upon a time there were "Launch Wardens" to do this and I have been out sailing with the late Percy Cross when we went along side a launch down the bottom end of Waiheke and Percy "educated" strongly but nicely the offending skipper. After all, we are out there to enjoy ourselves, and personal freedom is a very important liberty to preserve.

 

Regulations NOT being used are just a waste of paper . . .

There are already enough clauses in the Maritime Acts to keep some of these "arrogrant idiots" in court for a while, especially if their boat is impounded / clamped until fines etc fully paid.

 

I have access to a large block of land that could store many boats on trailers. Could make more money than farming????

 

my 2c worth but willing to offer my help as well. :thumbup:

 

But what a pissed off small 0.000018% there could be for not being sensible.

 

After all, most would have seen the Titanic movies. That sinking made lifejackets for each person LAW way back then, about 100 years ago.

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Hi folks, Al Thomson here, Maritime New Zealand Safety Inspector. (Long time reader, first time poster)

 

I`m based here in Auckland and spend most of my time implementing the NZ Pleasure Boat Safety Strategy and working with other organisations and government agencies to look for ways to deliver the boating safety message, especially to high risk groups.

 

Over the last couple of years we've had a programme running in south Auckland with ACC, Coastguard Boating Education, Coastguard Northern, Auckland Harbourmaster, Water safe Auckland and Water Safety NZ.

 

The programme is called Folau Malu (Journey Safely in Tongan). The programme has been about identifying boating safety champions within the pacific community in south Auckland who can deliver the boating safety message to their communities with credibility. The programme also incorporates radio and print and has been incorporated into the Water Safety New Zealand national pacific strategy.

 

Two language streams of the coastguard dayskipper course are currently running (Tongan and Samoan) and to date more than 120 pacific men and women have successfully completed the course, including 5 church ministers across 10 denominations.

 

As a follow up to PaulR`s comment we have the Maritime New Zealand Volunteer Safe Boating Advisor programme, which was developed after the old launch warden programme was wound up and Maritime Rule 91 was enacted. Safe Boating Advisors have no enforcement powers and are there purely there in an advisory capacity. we have 200 SBA`s across the country all involved to varying degrees. We ask for a minimum of coastguard boatmaster and 5 years recreational boating experience. The minimum time commitment is 5 days per year. We`ve also got a pilot programme about to kick off this summer in the bottom of the north/top of the south island with Coastguard looking how to better utilise each organisations volunteer resource to reach more boaties at ramps and on the water.

 

If anyone on the forum would like further info please PM me.

 

Cheers

 

Al

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G'day Al, Good to see you here, it's always good to interact with the powers that be as I'm sure you've noticed most 'public' usually only get to take educated guesses rather than know the nitty gritty.

 

Good to see the Ministry has recognised there are areas where some issues feature higher than in others areas and then moved to try and minimise those.... he says trying real hard knot to make any of this specific in a bad way as everyone has issues to some degree. As you have noticed there is a school of thought that if some of these people, and I mean all people knot just those from certain areas or backgrounds, are seen to be publicly raked over the coals it may make others think harder.

 

Just how much or what avenues do officials have to stop a boat when they see a accident just waiting to happen or in the aftermath of a shocker? I say officials as I'm knot to sure just who can do what so if you have any info on that I'm sure it would also be appreciated.

 

Any comments on that Al. We promise to regard them purely as comments and we won't try to stand in front of a Judge and say 'But Al said......'.

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Welcome and thanks Al for your comments.

 

I did not know about the South Auckland focus. Well done.

 

The "boating" term can be used for all pleasure boats or for the runabout / outboard boats, of which there are many.

 

As a long time racing harbour, coastal and ocean yachtsman, I am rather safety conscious and most if not all the yachts I sail on have all the YNZ Safety category gear and I have used spreadsheets for many years to list the requirements as well as how a particular racing yacht complies noting expiry dates on flares, make, model and serial numbers of electical and other equipment.

 

I am not involved in runabouts but through the media am aware that there seem to be many tragedies in small boats that all seem to have several common factors. (Is there a proper analysis available?)

 

Whilst more regulations may be the initial call, I am against anything that is more red tape.

 

I would rather ask "WHAT IS WRONG WITH USING THE EXISTING LAWS / REGULATIONS :?: " Try a few cases in court BEFORE changing or adding more laws. Endangering the lives of people under his care is one option, but not being a lawyer, I don't know which act, possibly the Crimes Act? rather tahn Maritime Act.

 

Education is better than more regulation so at least we are both using the same hymn sheet.

 

What has prompted me was the sheer arrogance displayed on TV by one person who even when advised (Educated) failed to comply with EXISTING laws.

 

Why hinder many others for the arrogance of one. Let Darwinism work in this case. I'm sure if his boat was "clamped" he would obtain the extra lifejackets immediately, or at least before next voyage.

 

Looking forward to you posting more Al. Thanks.

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Welcome and thanks Al for your comments.

 

I did not know about the South Auckland focus. Well done.

 

The "boating" term can be used for all pleasure boats or for the runabout / outboard boats, of which there are many.

 

As a long time racing harbour, coastal and ocean yachtsman, I am rather safety conscious and most if not all the yachts I sail on have all the YNZ Safety category gear and I have used spreadsheets for many years to list the requirements as well as how a particular racing yacht complies noting expiry dates on flares, make, model and serial numbers of electical and other equipment.

 

I am not involved in runabouts but through the media am aware that there seem to be many tragedies in small boats that all seem to have several common factors. (Is there a proper analysis available?)

 

Whilst more regulations may be the initial call, I am against anything that is more red tape.

 

I would rather ask "WHAT IS WRONG WITH USING THE EXISTING LAWS / REGULATIONS :?: " Try a few cases in court BEFORE changing or adding more laws. Endangering the lives of people under his care is one option, but not being a lawyer, I don't know which act, possibly the Crimes Act? rather tahn Maritime Act.

 

Education is better than more regulation so at least we are both using the same hymn sheet.

 

What has prompted me was the sheer arrogance displayed on TV by one person who even when advised (Educated) failed to comply with EXISTING laws.

 

Why hinder many others for the arrogance of one. Let Darwinism work in this case. I'm sure if his boat was "clamped" he would obtain the extra lifejackets immediately, or at least before next voyage.

 

Looking forward to you posting more Al. Thanks.

 

 

Got to have regs. The harbour master can only do max fine is $200-

 

Like the gentleman who was shocked when a vessels skipper completly in the wrong collided with his vessel killing people on board. No breath test - No Crimminal charges.

 

Fined 200 dollars.

 

Like the gentleman skipper doing 30 knots in a 5 mph area who had a CML running into a anchored vessel fishing and killing 2 tourists fishing. Penalty - licence cancelled for 6 months.

 

 

It is not only not wearing life jackets that are the stupid few. They are every where on the water.

 

 

Lifejackets should be compulsory espescially in small craft and for children. but don't call the jackets call them PFD's. Life jackets people immediately think - bulky - uncomfortable - a pain to wear.

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