Fish 0 Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Looks like Hornblower is being protested for carrying oversize sails. See ssanz website for details. Bit of a "spilt milk protest" even if they adjusted them to .85 Still one of the best results on the day Think you missed the point JJ - The common or garden variaty definition of running undeclared sails is CHEATING And the general definition of someone that doesn't withdraw after being asked / challenged by a fellow competitor is a piss poor sportsman But lets not jump to any conclusions and wait for due process and the protest result. Big ups to the person lodging the protest Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 What's the score on division flags? The guys on Demonstrator spent all day avoiding a Ross 40 with a white div flag on (Div1) only to find the said boat was actually in Div 2 and should have had a green flag up. Naturally there was some 'disappointment' when they didn't get the gun They spent some hours alongside during the race to see what flag was flying Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Tuff shite not following the SI's Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Looks like Hornblower is being protested for carrying oversize sails. See ssanz website for details. Bit of a "spilt milk protest" even if they adjusted them to .85 Still one of the best results on the day Think you missed the point JJ - The common or garden variaty definition of running undeclared sails is CHEATING And the general definition of someone that doesn't withdraw after being asked / challenged by a fellow competitor is a piss poor sportsman But lets not jump to any conclusions and wait for due process and the protest result. Big ups to the person lodging the protest +1. Using undeclared sails to your advantage is cheating. IMO Hornblower shouldnt have a .78 handicap. Its an .8+ boat that should be in the longhaul division, not shorthaul. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Lets not get into yet another discussion about how sucky PHRF is. We beat Mix T Emotions by 11 minutes on line and 21 seconds on PHRF.....come on dude, 7.4m trailer boat with way smaller everything rates 0.715 vs 8m keeler with everthing much, much bigger at 0.7100 ? Energy gets canned cos its been raced very well only in past simrads when it blows its tits off and she loves it. Race history is 3 races in total - all blowing which she loves (to a point) Not so happy in light airs like Saturday tho..... Oh well - we need to sail to our handicap I guess (and not get stuck in the tide at midnight) Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Looks like Hornblower is being protested for carrying oversize sails. See ssanz website for details. Bit of a "spilt milk protest" even if they adjusted them to .85 Still one of the best results on the day Another thought JJ, if you were sailing cruising division and one of your compeditors popped up a spinacker or genny, would you be OK with it? Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Tuff shite not following the SI's What?!? Class list is not displayed in SIs so I don't get your point? A boat has a white flag so different division. So why go play games with them, or sail tactically against them? Then finish the race to discover they are in your division the whole time and you're happy with that? Is that what you meant? Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron 75 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 What's the score on division flags? The guys on Demonstrator spent all day avoiding a Ross 40 with a white div flag on (Div1) only to find the said boat was actually in Div 2 and should have had a green flag up. Naturally there was some 'disappointment' when they didn't get the gun They spent some hours alongside during the race to see what flag was flying Interesting... On the finish line the said Ross 40 tried to argue with the finish team that other boats were ahead of them so they shouldn't have got the gun ! Neither skipper or crew were aware of what their PHRF was and thought they were in Longhaul 1. Guess they were lucky Longhaul 1 and 2 start together and do the same course ! As far as the flag they were flying... it was dark by the time they finished so nobody on the finish team saw it. To the Ross 40's credit they feel they should be a Div 1 boat and have since contacted YNZ for a review ! How many yachties do that ??? Unfortunately it is problematic changing divisions now and being fair to all competitors. Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Excellent - thanks Cam and ups to the R40. Not quite sure why that boat's rating is...... but we no go there. We weren't going to push the point as, as the boys on my boat said, they probably would've beaten the Demo anyway but it was worth asking the question. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Looks like Hornblower is being protested for carrying oversize sails. See ssanz website for details. Bit of a "spilt milk protest" even if they adjusted them to .85 Still one of the best results on the day Another thought JJ, if you were sailing cruising division and one of your compeditors popped up a spinacker or genny, would you be OK with it? I have no idea!...88's dont race in a crusing division I understand the drama over the sail issue, my point is hornblower looks to have been sailed pretty well, id be guessing if markm punched in the racetracker numbers for that race they would come out pretty close to the top. If the"ilegal sail" puts them over .8 and they are in wrong division....swing em from a yard arm Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron 75 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Before we accuse people of being cheats etc... I will say there is a fair amount of confusion over how a Code Zero type sail is measured and declared. It would appear there are other boats in the fleet that would also be in breach. My plan is to have a article I have just written checked over by those who should know. When Technically correct I will post on the SSANZ site to educate the competitors and advise them to ensure their declarations are correct. If they then chose to ignore the advise I'd encourage fellow competitors to protest them as they no longer have the excuse of being unaware. My current thoughts are along the lines of what Booboo posted earlier. Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I think this is a very good idea to clarify this as its a grey area just like moving/stacking sails and other boat gear and also water balast/fresh water systems. It seems from the coments in the past month or so that there is alot of confusion and different views on what is actually allowed. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Good call Cam. I've been doing some sussing and it appears that the Code O's are a definite area that could do with a clarification. And I think many boats may want to just check their published PHRF numbers, in relation to headsails and kite mainly. Some say they have big headsails yet the I's, P's, J's, ABC's, STD's and etc don't seem to line up that well with some. Also a few saying Fractional/symmetrical yet use gennies as well. My understanding is that if the Genny is smaller than the fractional/symmetrical that's fine but again some numbers just don't seem to line up that well. My thinking correct there does anyone know? Just sussing out of personal interest but I do think some boats may just want to double check. Be a right bastard to pull out a glamour race/series then get booted due to a technical wobbly measurement. I am fully of the feeling 99% of those wobbles are purely unintentional but a protest committee can't look at it that was if pushed. I also noticed the variation in R930 waterline lengths is 1200mm Link to post Share on other sites
DDF 0 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I also noticed the variation in R930 waterline lengths is 1200mm Who knows what the true LWL length is, all 930's are off the same plan/ mould.That measurement is possibly individually not important as only variation in LWL is due to weight. The measurements that count are the ones relating to modifications,and as told by PHRF commettee no one makes any modifications to go slower. The rules are clear. Declear any changes Made. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 All are the same design so the WLL variation shouldn't be there. Don't actually know what it is, I just copied my numbers off the 930 website and didn't actually measure anything. I assumed the website was right. Link to post Share on other sites
DDF 0 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I took mine from boat plans on 930 web site Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I took mine from boat plans on 930 web site You have 8.1 and I have 8.8 listed ????? So the 930 site isn't sure either I'd be thinking 8.8 is probably closer than 8.1. Say 400mm off for the bow rake and 400mm for the stern, off the top of my head. So that is 8.5mts. A quick suss shows the following WLL's - 8.1, 8.1, 8.84, 8.8, 9.0, 8.44, 8.45 and a 8.46. My guess is 8.4 to 8.5 looks to be it. I'll get out a tape measure. Link to post Share on other sites
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