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NZ designed Mini 650 kitset and South pacific Mini circuit.


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It would be pretty cool having a development class like this in NZ!!

 

So who is keen? How many boats?

 

Is a wooden boat really the way to go?

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Give the Bead & Cove Foam System a look at.

 

From Van Gorkam Yachts

 

One of the key ingredients that turn this kit plan package into a manageable do-it-yourself (and a few good friends) project is the use of the Core-Cell Bead and Cove method of foam core sandwich construction. The Core-Cell product, now under the banner of SP Systems, makes it relatively easy to plank over a grid of erected frames which is then easily faired and skinned to create a smooth surface. The Core-Cell Bead & Cove Planking System is ideal for one-off construction and originated with Andre Bilodeau who has written a comprehensive "how to" manual (supplied as part of the kit) http://www.cyberstreet.com/andre/.

 

Here's a series of contruction photos of his 35 fter.

 

http://www.vgyd.com/35xsthumbs.html

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Guest need for speed
Give the Bead & Cove Foam System a look at.

 

From Van Gorkam Yachts

 

One of the key ingredients that turn this kit plan package into a manageable do-it-yourself (and a few good friends) project is the use of the Core-Cell Bead and Cove method of foam core sandwich construction. The Core-Cell product, now under the banner of SP Systems, makes it relatively easy to plank over a grid of erected frames which is then easily faired and skinned to create a smooth surface. The Core-Cell Bead & Cove Planking System is ideal for one-off construction and originated with Andre Bilodeau who has written a comprehensive "how to" manual (supplied as part of the kit) http://www.cyberstreet.com/andre/.

 

Here's a series of contruction photos of his 35 fter.

 

http://www.vgyd.com/35xsthumbs.html

 

There are several build methods but for economy you can't go past laser cutt jig / frames, ramsetting them to a floor (to Plan) and pumping a series of strip plank ceder hulls of it/ them.

 

You could also get shipped over someone elses old jig but it would be easier to get plans and whack a jig together locally.

 

once you have the first hull of you can use this for a plug for a female mould and go production glass boats but you need volume (10 or more to justify the cost and time) or donations from a rich bunch of owners!

 

Strip plank ceder done properly with the right glass layup and correct framing / structural re inforcementwill never be as good as foam Carbon but it is close and reliable! (don't paint them dark colours unless you like the joint look)

 

And like previous post said if you rig them well and sail them better you will be competitive.

 

Also if you just keep the class local (local rules) then you can put a ban on foam / carbon and have good local fun! (forget the Frogs!)

 

remember a standard sheet of klegicell (nuplex)or dyvinicell 10 mm h100 (KG per Cubic metre) was about $1500 the last time i brought some. (from memory)

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I agree with keeping some NZ rules to keep control of costs.

Like:

Wooden hulls only

aluminium masts

4 sails a year limit?

 

But if you were to do that wouldn't it be best to change the rule a bit? Like the 10 degree rule is pretty crap?

 

If no one had the intention of going to race with others in Europe then a better rule could be made. It would of course mean that selling the boats would be harder (although not sure if people would want a wooden boat with alloy mast in Europe anyway) but if a good scene was created here it wouldn't be problem.

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I agree with keeping some NZ rules to keep control of costs.

 

Widen the appeal by making them the "South-Pacific" rules i.e. the MiniSP

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Widen the appeal by making them the "South-Pacific" rules i.e. the MiniSP

 

Good idea it would be good to include others down this part of the world.

 

Why would you ever want a fixed keel?

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Guest at the dairy

You need to stick to the mini rules, yes guys might not want to go to europe in the first few years but give it some time and hopefully they will, we need to think internationally if we want to continue succeed as a yachting nation in the future.

 

If you stick to the mini rules you will get guys coming from all over the world to compete within a few years.....they wont if its essentially a new class, specific to NZ.

 

As they say if it aint broke....dont fix it, the minis are a very successful class with the series boats (usually cheap production boats) and the full on carbon Proto's, if you do your research you will see that the cheap production (and wooden boats) do very well in some of these races.

 

you wont widen the appeal but narrow it if you put all these extra rules in place, as long as the boast measure as a mini they should be allowed. Just because some guy turns up in a full carbo boat doesnt mean they will win.....as others have said most of the performance is down to the skipper, not the boat.

 

Yes maybe have a 'division' for this kitset boat, keeping it to wooden hull and alloy stick..... but we should promote it as a mini race.

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Nice Idea fellas.

 

I think you'd probably want to look at keeping the class pretty simple and easy to sail. i.e. I'd get rid of the canting keel and put in a lifting keel and perhaps make it deeper to gain the extra RM. Then you don't need any dagger boards canting controls etc etc. It will make the boat a whole lot easier and fun to sail short handed and will probably appeal to more people, as well as keeping the costs down.

 

Also you want to have a cost effective GRP, method for building hulls. This way people can buy hull and deck packages and finish them off themselves or buy a complete kit and go yachting. This can still be achieved as a kitset.

 

The boats want to be very light so all the loads are kept to a minimum which means you don't needs to spend as much on high load deack gear.

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Give the Bead & Cove Foam System a look at.

 

From Van Gorkam Yachts

 

One of the key ingredients that turn this kit plan package into a manageable do-it-yourself (and a few good friends) project is the use of the Core-Cell Bead and Cove method of foam core sandwich construction. The Core-Cell product, now under the banner of SP Systems, makes it relatively easy to plank over a grid of erected frames which is then easily faired and skinned to create a smooth surface. The Core-Cell Bead & Cove Planking System is ideal for one-off construction and originated with Andre Bilodeau who has written a comprehensive "how to" manual (supplied as part of the kit) http://www.cyberstreet.com/andre/.

 

Here's a series of contruction photos of his 35 fter.

 

http://www.vgyd.com/35xsthumbs.html

 

There are several build methods but for economy you can't go past laser cutt jig / frames, ramsetting them to a floor (to Plan) and pumping a series of strip plank ceder hulls of it/ them.

 

You could also get shipped over someone elses old jig but it would be easier to get plans and whack a jig together locally.

 

once you have the first hull of you can use this for a plug for a female mould and go production glass boats but you need volume (10 or more to justify the cost and time) or donations from a rich bunch of owners!

 

Strip plank ceder done properly with the right glass layup and correct framing / structural re inforcementwill never be as good as foam Carbon but it is close and reliable! (don't paint them dark colours unless you like the joint look)

 

And like previous post said if you rig them well and sail them better you will be competitive.

 

Also if you just keep the class local (local rules) then you can put a ban on foam / carbon and have good local fun! (forget the Frogs!)

 

remember a standard sheet of klegicell (nuplex)or dyvinicell 10 mm h100 (KG per Cubic metre) was about $1500 the last time i brought some. (from memory)

 

 

IMHO the best way to build a one-off of this size would be to build with foam/glass on internal frames as a complete hull and deck as one moulding. i.e. build one half of the boat install internal structure release from frames. Flip frames around for other half. build other half and join halves down C.L. of boat. Finish off outside of hull last.

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It's coming Nam, there are a fair few strings :)

 

Personally I don't see the point in re-inventing the wheel. The existing Mini rules are clean and have been very well worked thru by now. Most of them are safety related so it'll make zero difference to a huge pile of gear anyway, unless you don't want to get higher then Cat 3.

 

Yes the dagger boards and canting keels will make them a lot harder to sail in Harbour type courses but they aren't designed for that are they?? Buy a cool harbour racer instead, like a T30 or a R930 for example :twisted: :lol: :lol:

 

You also can't really add '2 handed will be hard' to that. The bloody things are mostly single handed boats now and one person seems to cope OK. God forbid anyone suggest one French dude is equal to 2 kiwi dude. Get a grip, we all know it's the other way around, and the Kiwis don't get all that Government support for their terrorist activities like the French dudes do.

 

I've been talking to someone keen on the idea,( Hi you :) ), and he's thinking fixed keel also. While I think a good sailor in a canter will be faster I also think a good sailor in a fixed keel will beat a bad sailor with a canter. I think some just don't realise how much of an input the dick on the stick has with these specific craft. Pick the top French dude and put him in a 1999 model fixed keel boat and I'll put a lot of cold beers down that he will still clean up an average guy in the latest and greatest boat, over a distance. The human factor when talking Minis is HUGE.

 

My Mini was strip planked with Duracore and them had glass/carbon laid over polystyrene for the internal framing. It was both real easy to do and fecking strong.

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ah, again the same old problem of trying to dilute another sailing class. It seems to be the problem with NZ sailing."lets start sailing another class here".....

 

Its seems a shame that NZ'ers think that we need to change the rules to make it appropriate for NZ'ers. Why not put a wooden mast. flax sails, and compulsary PVC wet weather gear to reduce cost. It is no wonder NZ'ers are slipping off the world stage. We have to try and give us some chance overseas. The best ocean race in years (Vendee Globe) had no NZ'ers. Why is this if we are supposedly the greatest sailing nation in the world. ???????

 

So best we stick to the mini rules, cough up the dough(you are going to have to if you want to compete in Europe anyway) and learn how to sail these exciting boats. Who knows, one day somebody might actually want to sponsor a NZ'er in a single handed class.

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What have you done with your mini Knot Me?

Knot a lot for quite a long while. Currently trying to decide to get her floating as a full on but knot quite class legal Mini or put another 3mts on the stick, wings and 5 trapezes for harbour blasting.

 

Problemchild - I agree.

 

All I see the differences being talked about here are canters V's fixed really. I don't see the materials and construction methods making a big amount of difference except for maybe a home builders skill level. Yes there is more cost in a canter but in the big scheme of things, again, knot a lot. These are only 21ft boats, even if fat bastard ones.

 

I say build to the Mini rule is my call and what I would do myself. Just seems a bit crazy to build a fleet of 'nearly Minis' when the difference will be bugger all at the end of the day.

 

The rules do knot exclude fixed keels and many of them still are. The production Pogos are fixed (or were last time I sussed) and they only finished just behind the top protos in the last race. And the top Pogos cleaned up a LOT of the full on protos.

 

Maybe we do have 2 boats. One being the full on and the other being 'production'. It's worked pretty well for the last 30 years odd in Europe. Actually the production fleet is growing faster then the prototype fleet.

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Guest creative suffering

Problem Child or is that PC?...

 

 

two things why we should get it right here and forget our costly fascination with overseas (europe),,,

 

1. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$numbers$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Cost$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$expense$$$$

 

2. If your grass is dying in your backyard why travel across the country to fertilize some one else lawn?

 

PC between Aussie, noumea, and asia we could move the goal posts with a cheaper but better class! why be followers? when we can be leaders!

 

In fact! if your glass was half full we would be thinking.....could we do it better than he current 650 claqss for less money and force them to come to us!!

 

some of the ideas so far are very good and going into a tight period for money could see a low cost version become very popular

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Step off the soap box for a moment CS, aren't you the same one who's been banging on about the lack of offshore sailing for NZers? Oh yeah, build orphans, that's sure to help the cause......knot.

 

And what's with all this 'come to us' crap. You're fecking dreaming or your P lab is leaking something, possibly both. You would be NZ's 1st trans-gender Prime Minister long before the Europeans came down here to play with bastardised Minis.

 

I'd like to know we would get cheaper and better. I have time for a laugh so go for it.

 

May pay to read the Mini rules 1st though or you stand a big risk of looking like a raving loony.

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