rigger 47 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 kite work, Asymetric kites on your own, spinnaker pole and sock/snuffer ====================== Kite wor pelagian PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: kite work Now we are only a week away from kick off. i am once again thinking about the mess i made of my kite, i put one up and ended up taking three home, not to mention the cost of geting it made into one again. What techniques are people using to drop there big kites two handed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- funlovincriminal PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:36 am On the SR we had cam cleats on the bulkhead for the halyards, Crew would cleat brace off and hand tail to helm. Uncoil halyard and throw tail in the water behind/beside boat. Quick visual to make sure no knots in halyard. Helm would bear away to almost dead run, as crew oversheets kite so its behind the main and out of the breeze. Crew then cleats halyard into cam cleat, opens Jammer and grabs leeward tweaker. Crew calls for halyard, helm tugs tail and it pops out of cam cleat, friction of halyard trailing in water slows descent of kite to managable speed. Once about halway down helmsman lets brace off (has wraps on winch to slow it). Crew brings kite in under boom into companionway. Robs your mothers live in lover Wink -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ailys Comet PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:47 am There ought to be some online video clip tutorials we can refer to (ideally without a cheesy american accent) showing 'how to do it'. Plus some footage of me on AC showing 'how not to do its' to reinforce the point (and for a laugh). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- col j PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:56 pm on a stewart 34 with the spin halyards usually on the mast in a jammer things will be hard work. get a tiller pilot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Knot Me PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:37 pm Just keep whipping the foredeck until he gets it right. After 2 or 3 drops they improve dramatically and get bloody fast Smile Halyard round a winch to slow it's roll. Cockpit hold sheet and bares off a little to swing as much behind the main as feasible. Foredeck grabs handfull of kite and goes like hell as the cockpit pops the halyard then brace. Cockpit screams at foredeck to hurry up and while down there grab another rum. I think that's what FLC said or pretty similar. All is at peace once more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quismiff PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:30 pm Full crew Jib up close to the mark, drop the pole and human pole it running flat down wind, ease off the halyard coming up to the mark (assuming windward leewards) jib set on opposite side to boom (gull wing) start dropping the kite quickly when coming onto the wind one down the hatch to haul it in, leave clips hanging out the hatch ready for next set. Two Handed (on a piedy) cleat off sheet, grab it and go forward pulling down on it, skipper controlling with tiller between his legs at this stage, eases brace forward, ease off the halyard, or dump it depending on how cruel he feels, pack chute down the hatch and get the pole sorted and back to get the jib up and sorted. Gennaker was another story, just get the jib up and haul the sucker in... tack was usually let off last... well thats best i can pull from memory... hope its of some help... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulR PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:37 pm pelagian wrote: Now we are only a week away from kick off. i am once again thinking about the mess i made of my kite, i put one up and ended up taking three home, not to mention the cost of geting it made into one again. What techniques are people using to drop there big kites two handed WHAT?????? have you done with that SSANZ Committee member who used to crew for you????? 1). Straddle the helm at ALL stages! 2). Leeward hand holds sheet & lazy guy 3). Windward hand holds halyard, uncleated but still around winch but with tail trailing astern PLUS mainsheet, traveller, to keep trimming. 4). Downhaul in easy reach 5). Then after last kind words, send crew to leeward to grab spinnaker clew and pull sail under boom & down hatch. 6). Cleat main & Traveller, shout at crew, ease halyard 3m, pull in lazy guy, drop sheet, ease guy/brace forward to 1m off forestay, pull in slack downhaul, all with 10 seconds. 7). Allow crew to gently pull in clew, AMBLE back under boom to be near hatch and gather in spinnaker Cool. Ease halyard another 3m, release lazy (windward) sheet and then ease pole to forestay, then ease out another 3m of halyard, all in next 10 seconds. 9). Pull in downhaul, release and lower pinnaker pole, to GENTLY touch your freshly painted foredeck, then release remainder of halyard 10). Drop all ropes from both hands and help crew get last of spinnaker down the hatch over crew's head water and all. 11). Unhook halyards and sheets and clip 3 ends together. (as crew still below) 12). Trim Genoa, mainsheet & traveller, backstay tension. (as crew still below) 13). Trim Main outhaul, Main cunningham, Genoa Cunningham (as crew still below) 14). Ease leeward lazy guy & pull in on winward lazy sheet & guy to drag clips & halyard forward (as crew still below) so all clips are forward ready for next spinnaker hoist. 15). Shout to self "STANDBY TO TACK" (as crew still below) 16). Shout "IT'S OK I'LL TACK BY MYSELF" (as crew still below) 17). Do a really good smart tack (as crew still below) 1Cool. Trim genoa (as crew still below) 19). Welcome crew member into cockpit by saying "WHAT A BRILLIANT JOB YOU DID", it & have a rest whilst I helm again. 20). REMEMBER THAT YOUR ONLY DOING THIS TO ENJOY YOURSELF! Gypes Kurt, it can't be that hard, especially when the crew gets all wet down below and sorts out and rebags the spinnaker for you. Can't see what your problem is Kurt!!!!! Do you need some training???? Cheers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yachtyakka PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:46 am but if you want to use the kite again? run off, pole forward, sheet on which brings the sail behind the main. one turn round a bolard, throw remaining halyard over the side, sheet on hard, run the brace, sail folds inbehind the main, keep running off crew sitting forward of main hatch gathers kite, helm lowers halyard once crew has kite gathered, crew drops sail down hatch, evermindfull of half empty rum. a good crew will have kite bag rigged in hatchway to repack as kite as lowered. trim on headsail. carry on number 1, sir my rums empty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulR PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:31 am yachtyakka wrote: but if you want to use the kite again? run off, pole forward, sheet on which brings the sail behind the main. one turn round a bolard, throw remaining halyard over the side, sheet on hard, run the brace, sail folds inbehind the main, keep running off crew sitting forward of main hatch gathers kite, helm lowers halyard once crew has kite gathered, crew drops sail down hatch, evermindfull of half empty rum. a good crew will have kite bag rigged in hatchway to repack as kite as lowered. trim on headsail. carry on number 1, sir my rums empty You still haven't tacked YY at the mark yet! Another wide rounding??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yachtyakka PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:48 am yachtyakka wrote: but if you want to use the kite again? run off, pole forward, sheet on which brings the sail behind the main. one turn round a bolard, throw remaining halyard over the side, sheet on hard, run the brace, sail folds inbehind the main, keep running off crew sitting forward of main hatch gathers kite, helm lowers halyard once crew has kite gathered, crew drops sail down hatch, evermindfull of half empty rum. a good crew will have kite bag rigged in hatchway to repack as kite as lowered. trim on headsail. carry on number 1, sir my rums empty PaulR wrote: You still haven't tacked YY at the mark yet! Another wide rounding??? you want to tack aswell? you will find these directions in Barry Goes Boating 101 first find a green 930 to bounc off, helm to lee, tis can be down by hand or the method I prefer is two finger job on grey buttons wait for small back wind or not or pass wind remind crew that he/she needs to get all the kite onboard if he / she wishes to be asked again trim on for new direction, top up refreshments tell percy job well done -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bretto PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:56 pm Kurt, easy mate, just send Geoff up front, sitting with feet on rail in front of forward lower hatch open holding lazy brace. Me in the back kite oversheeted and holding halyard via a turn on the coachroof winch. turn downwind not quite square, blow 1/3 of halyard to depower kite, but keep it out of the drink. geoff gathers foot I let brace go and geoff grabs the rest, ease halyard as he bundles it in his lap and stuffs bunches down the hatch...have a rum....preparation is everything.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yachtyakka PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:06 pm all great variations on the same theme so you should be sorted now. its going to be blowing too hard anyway so just use the flare gun at gannet rock Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- col j PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:12 pm chase boat drop? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yachtyakka PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:45 am col j wrote: chase boat drop? the chase boat would be another stewart they'd probibly keep it Laughing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- funlovincriminal PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:08 pm Or you could do what Piedy Paul did at the finish line of a windy Simrad a couple of years ago, we were doing about 14-15 knots broad reach past Orakei. 1 - Wedge rum into safe corner of cockpit, say "Oh well Nige, guess we better get this kite down then eh?" 2 - Get brand new 6mm spectra masthead halyard in one hand, put 1 wrap on cabin top winch. 3 - Give brace to helm, Take sheet in spare hand 4 - Kick halyard jammer open and allow about 10 metres of hard, shiney new halyard to smoke through un-gloved hand. 5 - Yell to helm to smoke the brace. 6 - Realise that you have almost lost an index finger and that what you can smell is actually cooked human meat. 7 - in shock release the sheet, which doesn't have a stopper knot in it. 8 - amble on downstairs to sit there in shock staring at your hand and repeating - "Why doesn't it bleed?" 9 - Let skipper steer flat out SR all over harbour trying to get past the pretty mast head flag, while retaining top 3rd of rig. 10 - Come back up, drop it completely into the piss, run it over and winch it back on board... amazingly still in one piece. 11 - Finish rum while listening to helm explain what 'cauterized' means! Its the kind of drop you'll only do once... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clipper PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:28 pm OUCH! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulR PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:19 pm Pelagian: A real tip just for You. Firstly from what I'm currently reading: http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167 ... ofSail.gif Hope that's a plug and overcomes copyright issues. This is a sample of their really good tips. http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167 ... Tip112.jpg Could be useful. as long as you don't gybe and then foul the trip line which then releases the sheet. I always feel the most important rope on any yacht is the spinnaker pole downhaul. Any other halyard or sheet can part and you have difficulties prgressing to problems. Should the spinnaker pole downhaul break on a shy reach, then the pole skies and the only outcome is the spinnaker billows and drags the yacht right over = Instant DISASTER => bypasses problems in 1 nano second as now the cockpit fills with water and then flows below, the yacht is kept heeled over. See Beken of Cowes "Classic Photos" of Red Lancer which made the calender front for 1975 or 76. I actually had to push the main over my head (whilst helming) in the gybe, there was no weight in that instance, tons a few seconds later though. Pole was bent, dropped kite, gybed and continued on racing. I had warned the crew what was about to happen, given the squall approaching, and we had the No3 handed on ready to hoist, once the kte was down. Can't remember the place but we were well pleased with our result that day. Also over Christmas I read "Why didn't I think of that" being 400+ tips from cruising yachts. However some suggestions will NOT meet YNZ Safety regs. E.g. One suggestion is to use eyebolts for clipping safety harnesses on to. YNZ outlaws eyebolts because they have broken and a person was lost I believe. So YNZ requires more than one bolt e.g. "U" bolt or deck eye pad with 2 or more bolts. Just remember nearly all the YNZ Safet Regulations have been "WRITTEN IN BLOOD" and are "MINIMUM" standards only. Still both books have plenty of good suggestions. We can all learn something new. Cheers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================= Asymetric kites on your own kiwi PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:57 pm I sail a 7.6m trialer yacht mostly on my own.Its set up with both mast head and fractional gennakers from a fixed prod. Hoisting the kites is the easy part,I"m able to do this whole operation from the cockpit,the tricky bit is getting them down.Especially if the wind has got up a bit while I've been enjoying the downwind or reaching sailing. What I need is recommendations on a system to get the sail back on deck. I've been thinking about a dousing line into a turtle bag layed out along the decks? Anyone out there have other suggestions or info on suppliers of this sort of gear. Thanx in advance Confused -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- greendoor PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:11 pm put a sock on it or look at what the 18's do and furle it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim C PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:43 am Sail down to flat off, the kite will collapse behind the main and pull it in via the sheet, under the boom, letting the tack line off first. I use to sail with a gennaker on a 5m cat by myself. Similar sized sail I'm sure. Lots of fun and no worries. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zen PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:07 am Just think about it real early and give yourself enough searoom to go real deep. Under the boom or even thru the envelope but the bow's not a brilliant place to be single handed. I used to steer a Ross 780 with a string going around the bow but any sort of breeze made it tricky. No. 1 thing to look out for is NO KNOTS IN THE HALYARD. Things start getting very difficult if you haven't stayed nice and tidy with all the ropes. A good idea is to trail the halyard out the back of the boat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim C PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:35 am Trailing the halyards I guess would work well on a T/Y. It would possibly pull the sail up on a multihull! Certainly good house work is the answer to making it all work smoothly, and steering Dead down wind. So many people don't quite get there, and that is when the kite drops, short handed, go wrong... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shanson PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:42 am I've never done it but sail solo so have given it a lot of thought. To me a sock seems to make most sense followed buy using a furler. I'd been keen to find out how you get on! Laughing SHANE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- twist PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:56 am I have a bamar rollgen on the Iorangi for furling the Gennaker. I didn't think much of it at first but now that I have the hang of it it's pretty good. Iorangi is 52 ft so things can be a handful singlehanded, but this makes it pretty easy. Just run flat with all the sheets loose and furl about a third of it. put a bit of load on the sheet and then furl the rest. Putting a load on the sheet makes a tight furl, otherwise it looks like s#@t -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quantum leap PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:10 am kiwi wrote: I sail a 7.6m trialer yacht mostly on my own.Its set up with both mast head and fractional gennakers from a fixed prod. Hoisting the kites is the easy part,I"m able to do this whole operation from the cockpit,the tricky bit is getting them down.Especially if the wind has got up a bit while I've been enjoying the downwind or reaching sailing. What I need is recommendations on a system to get the sail back on deck. I've been thinking about a dousing line into a turtle bag layed out along the decks? Anyone out there have other suggestions or info on suppliers of this sort of gear. Thanx in advance Confused You could look at a retrieval line (2 point attachment on the A sail)3 and either a roller arrangment (team nZ / Flying fifteen) or a front hatch sock / chute and then run the retevial line through the hatch to the cockpit. On Team NZ they had a 470 spin halyard type 1:4 ? purchase. (pull one foot retrive 4 feet) Murray ross ran a fantastic system for kites on News paper taxi and Smackwater jack with a hoop in the pull pit and a hatch. (in front of the forestay i think) that ran down stairs into a chute. This was for kite and large ones Food for thought? ======================================= spinnaker pole and sock/snuffer not a Clew PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:30 pm I have a couple of questions regarding the use of large downwind sails for solo sailors. I have a 35ft ketch and use an MPS when sailing downwind - I am a cruiser, not a racer. I don't use a pole of any kind and it doesnt seem to need one - but I have never experienced the difference of adding one. Do you need a pole? would it help to sail more directly downwind? Up till now I have dropped the sail by: 1. putting her on autopilot 2. almost completely releasing the sheet 3. releasing the halyard but wrapping the tail around a cleat so that the head comes down slowly (slow enough to keep up with) 4. bringing the sail on deck as fast as possible (i am fearful of wrapping it around the keel!) Recently I have learned about the benefits of using a sock or snuffer to collapse the sail before dropping it. Has anybody used one with or without success? Where did you buy it and what did it cost? The local sailmakers usually stock the ATN sock but some make their own. I would appreciate any comments RE: buying a pole or sock. Cheers Very Happy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dana-tenacity PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:44 am Socks are wonderful, poles will improve performance a bit, especially DDW, but are a pain in the butt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PottBlack PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:32 am I had a sock made when i got a gennaker for my 32footer. Talk to Rick Royden. cost around $300-350 i think.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PaulR PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:39 pm Knot a Clew wrote: 2. almost completely releasing the sheet 3. releasing the halyard but wrapping the tail around a cleat so that the head comes down slowly (slow enough to keep up with) An earlier thread had a good idea to throw the Spinnaker halyard over the side so that the drag in the water would provide a slower halyard drop. Haven't tried this myself but sounds a good idea. Could always tie on a extra length for that little more drag and the knot will also stop the halyard disappearing up te mast and away. Hopefully will give this a try on next Friday when doing a little B&G SIMRAD practice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- anttay PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:54 pm Quote: Talk to Rick Royden. cost around $300-350 i think... That's a bit expensive for what is essentially a cloth tube with a metal hoop and a bit of line and some blocks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- grant PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:22 pm Quote: That's a bit expensive for what is essentially a cloth tube with a metal hoop and a bit of line and some blocks. I am guessing that you are paying for knowing what size hoop and where the blocks go, depends if you've got time to work it all out from scratch or 'buy' the experience -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- island time PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:26 pm Maybe, but look at http://www.atninc.com/sleeve.html These are great, but over $1K!!! work really well with a sperate sleave for contol lines, breathable fabric, and custom f/glass feeders. Doyles Auckland have them... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to post Share on other sites
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