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timberwolf


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Hey tim

 

you could have saved yourself a whole lot of bother by building symetrical bulkheads and making a proa. Acorrding to a proa builders you would have had your boat built and be sailing this weekend. Not only that you would take line and handicap in your 400 million knot boat

 

 

And it would be so light you could just carry it down the ramp yourself & chuck it in the water. Save crane costs.

 

 

....and then win AC34 with it

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Send it wrote:

Hey tim

 

you could have saved yourself a whole lot of bother by building symetrical bulkheads and making a proa. Acorrding to a proa builders you would have had your boat built and be sailing this weekend. Not only that you would take line and handicap in your 400 million knot boat

 

 

And it would be so light you could just carry it down the ramp yourself & chuck it in the water. Save crane costs.

 

 

....and then win AC34 with it

 

..... and then cruise the world forever with nothing but a loin cloth, a bottle of water and a rusty fish hook!

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Hey Tim. Fantastic thread mate. I am so impressed. I had no idea how these were built. Hey waht is the laminate that goes over the foam first? Obviously carbon next, but what was the first one?

Thanks for putting all this on line. Great effort. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Thanks for that.

 

Part of the never end search for sponsorship, costs a lot to run a programme like this.....

 

the basic hull laminate is 200 gm Carbon Cloth Inside laminate at 45 degrees, 80 kg density foam, and 500 gm laminate outside, at 0/90.

There is additional laminate in the way of bulkheads and the foil case.

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Thats really interesting thanks. :thumbup:

Whats the masking tape on the carbon fibre for? I assume its to do with keeping the weave square, but how??

 

And whats the wooden cross guide for?

 

Sorry, they are probably dumb questions...

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the glass comes 0/90 degrees and we want it +-45 degrees, so we run tape across the roll at 45 degrees then cut down the tape. yes the tape helps keep it all together. it can go very pear shaped if you don't, and also if you dont start to wet it out from the right place. the cross thing ( jig ) is to mark a waterline height for reinforcing uni's and the a shelf........ more photos next week

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"my calculations were based on a normal configuration, not a three hull in "piver" configuration."

 

Sam, that really rather cheeky comparing Timberwolf with a Piver. Maybe you need to take a look at racetrack and see how far behind the nearest Piver is ?

Also you haven't performed any "calculations" at all, you never started with enough information, instead you have made some wildly inaccurate random statements.

Anyway the basis of the discussion is all good so i'll have a crack at answering some of your points.

 

"Im suprised you would optimise your boat so heavily for reaching and upwind in the breeze at the expense of the light airs and running that Timberwolf used to excel in?"

 

Everybody knows that Timberwolf is exceedingly weak as soon as there is any wind, especially against the Cats.

we are definitely looking to improve in medium and strong winds and especially reaching.

There is a chance we may have traded off some light/medium airs performance in the changes we are making but I for one doubt that very much.

One definite change though will be less heel in the dead light which could affect us a bit. The new amas are still very fine and have a similar amount of rocker as before and I'd guess (along with our sailplan) are the main factors in the boats current light airs speed.

 

"The three hull in worked for BMWO however they had a much higher bruce number than you I would guess?"

 

I never heard anyone refer to the configuration of BMW Oracle as being similar to a Piver ?

we have more rocker than BMW oracle, as in less initial buoyancy, thus allowing our lee hull to settle down (and ww ama clear) which if you make a direct comparison would mean our Bruce number of 1.91 will be sufficient in quite low amounts of wind for our ww ama to clear. It will also clear with just one crew member standing on the lee ama in zero wind.

 

"At what windspeed would you guess you would have the WW ama clear VMG running in this configuration? (assuming small chop not flat calm sea)"

 

Not sure ?

 

"If its successfull VPLP will be wondering why none of their tris (except BMWO) have ever been setup like this...

 

I have attached a picture of his lastest record breaking tri as an example, we can see one float quite high off the water when its not sailing."

 

and in that photo the rig of BP is canted over. On an ocean going tri the ww hull is still quite close to the water considering that (there mast would be quite heavy as its a very big boat.

G3 also has a quite low dihedral for an ocean going tri.

TWF is a non ocean going tri and as such shares more similarities to BMW Oracle in the type of racing we tend to do, than it does to the racing that BP does.

We are not doing anything new here and I'm totally certain VPLP couldn't gives a rats arse about whether or not we end up with a better boat out of this.

 

"I have spent many many hours in Hydromax playing with "

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Sam, that really rather cheeky comparing Timberwolf with a Piver. Maybe you need to take a look at racetrack and see how far behind the nearest Piver is ?

I didnt intend to offend you its just the first Tri designs that spring to mind that have all three hulls significantly immersed are Pivers and BMWO

 

Also you haven't performed any "calculations" at all, you never started with enough information, instead you have made some wildly inaccurate random statements.

 

I have actually performed calculations based on very accurate information, I have the width, length, depth below WL of the main hull, height above WL of the original floats and the weight. The only things I had to take educated guesses on is the height above WL of the new floats and the load immersion of the new floats which is pretty easy to work out unless the float is a really wierd design

 

Everybody knows that Timberwolf is exceedingly weak as soon as there is any wind, especially against the Cats.

 

I cant see which Cats with a similar LWL and accomodation and age your exceedingly weak against on racetrack?

 

http://racetrack.org.nz/boat_wins.php?boatid=2463&rnk=2

 

your Win/Loss ratio against Exodus a newer bigger racing Cat is outstanding?

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Anyway the basis of the discussion is all good so i'll have a crack at answering some of your points.

 

Hey Tim im not trying to start an argument just trying to see what your thinking is.

 

Thanks for sharing so many photos and so much information its bloody great to see the progress on the Wolf :thumbup:

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The discussions begun on the model tri thread are really good. There are a lot of people out there who are unaware of the complexities and considerations that are involved in putting a tri together.

 

 

They are very good indeed, and very helpful...thankyou...

 

Although the french have been doing it for a while now it seems that the design of multi's has a lot of development left in it.

 

But the biggest thing seems to be the compromises / trade offs you have to make in design to best suit your given sailing conditions.

 

Anyone noticed the odd hook in Ama bow of BP's latest multi, I've seen it from a few angles and at first i thought it was just a trick of light but on second looks???.

73A7007087524EE781B70B5C71AF460C.jpg

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The discussions begun on the model tri thread are really good. There are a lot of people out there who are unaware of the complexities and considerations that are involved in putting a tri together.

 

 

They are very good indeed, and very helpful...thankyou...

 

Although the french have been doing it for a while now it seems that the design of multi's has a lot of development left in it.

 

But the biggest thing seems to be the compromises / trade offs you have to make in design to best suit your given sailing conditions.

 

Anyone noticed the odd hook in Ama bow of BP's latest multi, I've seen it from a few angles and at first i thought it was just a trick of light but on second looks???.

 

 

In fact the photo above is of the 60' versions of each. Both VPLP designs earlier than TeamVS. The only latter 60' was Groupama 2. TVS has had the bottom of her main hul cut off and a new one added the same as it as it proved a faster design.

 

The big Banque Pop is 130' and has basicly verticle bows.

 

Interestingly the 105" Sebebo and Idec, both of which were specificly designed as single handed boats, are much narrower for their length and have piercing bows. They are Nigel Irons designs not VPLP and didnt have foils in the amas when I crawled over them last year in France. I believe Tomas Collville has now added curved foils to Sodebo and is predicting 5% performance gain as a result.

 

Early next month the Route de Rhum starts which is a single handed race across the Atlantic from Sait Malo to Guadeloup in the Caribeain.

 

It will be interestring because Frank Camaas has just reconfigured Groupama 3 (just been around the world in 48 days Jules Verne) for singlehanded sailing with a smaller rig etc.

 

It will be a marithon battle see

 

http://www.routedurhum-labanquepostale. ... 1_home.php

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