Guest Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 A technical question. With your rudders on the TW would you expect the loads on them to be higher or lower than a mono of an equivalent size? I was pondering if they would be higher or lower and buggered if I could work out which it would be. I'm thinking 'generally most of the time' less but would 'spike' higher. I did like that snippet of vid peanut took of last weekend.... including the comment heard 'it'll be close' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 KM I reckon loads could be higher mostly due to higher drag due to higher speeds. Drag increases expo...expi... a lot as speed increases Quote Link to post Share on other sites
203 0 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 [attachment=1]DSC08236.JPG[/attachment][attachment=0]DSC08238.JPG[/attachment] New transom for both hulls incorporating new Carbon Gudgeons. The new Gudgeons are mounted from the Inside of the transom through angled holes. Inside the Transom they are Glassed over and the photo shows the Carbon over the new Gudgeon. The Old gudgeons had peeled off the Old transom, on the Starboard side we hit the bottom soon after the relaunch. The Port side fell off the Friday before last when we backed it into a mooring post. I glued it up quickly that night to do the Windward Leewards the next day but actually the Glue hadn't been properly mixed and it was probably too cold, anyway that is the one that fell off during Simrad. Inside ther transom are some flanges and a knee down the centre, so by grinding off the old transom I can get back to that. (Next fine day). Then will glue the new transom on each side and tidy it up for racing on Saturday. The boat has to come out in September for re antifoul and then I will have the chance to tape around the back of the transom and touch up the Paintwork. Very nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 374 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I have to say, and sorry to other multi owners, but TW is my favourite multi of all time. Looks good Goes fast Home made (mostly) I'd want one for fun commuting if I lived on a gulf Island. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 A technical question. With your rudders on the TW would you expect the loads on them to be higher or lower than a mono of an equivalent size? I was pondering if they would be higher or lower and buggered if I could work out which it would be. I'm thinking 'generally most of the time' less but would 'spike' higher. I did like that snippet of vid peanut took of last weekend.... including the comment heard 'it'll be close' Compared to either Positive Touch or Fun n Games both Light Displacement 30' keelboats the loads on Timberwolfs rudders are around half to 2/3rds the loads of the two keelboats. I Know this as we built Positive Touch a rudder blade slightly stronger than Timberwolfs and it broke in the Coastal they were leading. I then used the laminate of Fun n Games' rudder to beef up Positive Touch's rudder and stock and I understand its still going strong today. The Blade of Timberwolfs Rudder is about 7 kg, the upgraded PT rudder more like 11kg. For a further indication take a look at either X Factor or Taepings rudders. Both are very similar to timberwolfs but are really very thin and light looking, you can't even compare them to Rudders on either a 44' or 52' monohull. The reason for this is due to the tracking nature of Multihulls. Put a long skinny hull in the water and try to turn it. It really just wants to keep going straight. Hence turns on Multihulls are long slow arcs. The "broaching" of a keelboat and the rudder over at 45 degrees is when a monohull rudder sees its biggest load and you can't duplicate that in a Multihull. If you were to consider grounding the rudder as well (the mode of failure of one of Timberwolfs) then once again the multihull sees less load this time due to the weight of the boat. In the case of Timberwolf its about 1200kg or so, whereas either PT or FNG are more likely to be around 2000kg I'd guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Tim could you talk to us a the leeward cant during the first part of the race on Saturday, between the start and devonport. Not sure if thats your normal sailing position or a case of not remembering to cant it before the start (to windward) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scubash 0 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 [attachment=0]546726_10151019283920509_1138732444_n.jpg[/attachment] Ahh I see you like my picture! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Tim could you talk to us a the leeward cant during the first part of the race on Saturday, between the start and devonport.Not sure if thats your normal sailing position or a case of not remembering to cant it before the start (to windward) Well spotted. The little Cam in the Spinlock Jammer which is held against the Rope by a little spring when the clutch handle is closed kept lifting off the Rope on Port tack. I think the Spring needs replacing? Anyway that meant we had to sail to North head canted to leeward until we could tack and then fix the problem. I took it in to Sailors Corner and Pedro said they have had a few customers bringing in their Spinlock XTS Jammers having the same problem. Very scary for us as we are relying on the jammer to hold the rig up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 wouldn't you have a safety strop fitted in line somewhere - in the same vein as a swimsaver on a windsurfer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 wouldn't you have a safety strop fitted in line somewhere - in the same vein as a swimsaver on a windsurfer Sure do have a safety, that is what stopped the rig falling over the side completely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 sorry - I took your last comment a little too literally I think! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 The Upshot with the Jammers is that the Plastic XTS Jammers have 20% less holding than the XCS model and even though I cannot believe our 3:1 stays ever see 3 tonnes (and therefore the Jammer 1 tonne) I have decided to go for the upgraded model (which allows an extra 600kg on the sidestay). That should fix that ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'd suggest that if you have to have wood in a foil then you need to use the strongest orientation of the grain to prevent a hull exit compression failure. It would be more efficient to use it like end grain balsa, ie with the grain running the shortest distance between the carbon flanges. The contribution of the cedar to longitudinal strength and stiffness compared to the carbon content is minimal. Using the cedar along the foil is relying on its core sheer strength. Remember how you split fire wood, along the grain. Imagine a plank lay up of a cedar core boat without the glass either side; it would be easy to break. More efficient again would have been a double bias sheer web. Wood has as much place in a carbon foil as aluminium in the marine environment... Oh my god, no ! Tim Clissold was 100% right. We broke the new board. Compression failure of the core.... aaaaaaargh. Was probably not too happy dropping off 6m odd swells at Channel Island so decided to bust off and head off to Cape Colville. Absolutely no wood in the new board. It has a HD foam and carbon shear web in the centre in place of the cedar. However despite having to eat humble pie on this aspect i will NOT be removing my boom, buying a Sail Outboard motor or importing a Cheap chinese wind generator fan that doesn't spin and is fitted in such a way that with too many people aboard the water gets in through the electrical wiring hole and boat begins to sink..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 However despite having to eat humble pie on this aspect i will NOT be removing my boom, buying a Sail Outboard motor or importing a Cheap chinese wind generator fan that doesn't spin and is fitted in such a way that with too many people aboard the water gets in through the electrical wiring hole and boat begins to sink..... That is funny stuff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 This might be of interest to you. I worked with a guy who was involved with the Boeing Carbon wing design program in USA. As you probably know the program was/is still delayed due to many failures of many carbon componants, designed by very competent composite engineers. He had thoughts of introducing some kevlar addition to the carbon and other technology that is a derivative of the dyneema rope technology. He wanted to do this as the rate of carbon failure was holding back the program and costing millions. Don't ask me any detail, as it was mind numbing stuff, but he showed me some Utube stuff and it was quite impressive. in the end they had to go back to conventional Alloy for many componants. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim C 23 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Oh my god, no ! Tim Clissold was 100% right. Oh my god, no ! Tim Clissold was 100% right. Oh my god, no ! Tim Clissold was 100% right. (I tried three times to quote this, but it was obviously 'quote protected', so I had to cut and paste! So it deserved to get pasted three times.) Well there is a sentence I never ever ever thought I would hear TimW ever say in public! Stop the world, miracles do happen!! Would you like some suggestions on the sheer web design of your next ones. Always happy to help! PS you've broken a boom too I remember. PPS I'm not the sort to say I told you so regarding wood in the centreboard environment... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hi Tim, you said in other thread that you damaged the mast beam. I had a look from the dock on Saturday, I've got to be honest it doesn't look like the damage will just buff out. how serious is it? will it threaten your coastal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hi Tim, you said in other thread that you damaged the mast beam. I had a look from the dock on Saturday, I've got to be honest it doesn't look like the damage will just buff out. how serious is it? will it threaten your coastal. There are two parts to the beam. A non structural fairing on the front and a box shaped structural part at the back. There has been a small amount of movement since relaunch and the fairing has cracked a bit and there is some slight damage to the structural beam and socket after the Simrad but it is very minor and is extremely easy to fix and once done it will be significantly stronger than it is now so I'm not expecting it to give us any more trouble albeit it was probably not smart pushing Timberwolf that hard in such massive seas, we should have put in another reef sooner. The boat will be repaired and re antifouled in a xcouple of weeks time and we are looking forward to the Coastal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sweet, the match up of the 35-33 footers will be good to watch this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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