Auckland Seaplanes

[Changed 10]

Can answer my own qestion. Production ceased in 1967(according to Wiki).

[Guest]

got sent a link to a quite corny beaver YouTube a while back, all went with a song, I'll try and dig it up

[otto 31]

I never mentioned yacht racers.

 

Yacht racers is but one group.

So are fishos, ferries, water taxis and three marinas all directly accessing this bit of water. Then there another marina further west with their tenants passing through.

plus we have the charter boats such as the jet boat tours, ted ashby and pride of Ak along with sail NZ.

and maybe even the odd cruiser, paddleboard and kayak

 

All in one piece of water

[Guest]

I never mentioned yacht racers.

 

Yacht racers is but one group.

So are fishos, ferries, water taxis and three marinas all directly accessing this bit of water. Then there another marina further west with their tenants passing through.

plus we have the charter boats such as the jet boat tours, ted ashby and pride of Ak along with sail NZ.

and maybe even the odd cruiser, paddleboard and kayak

 

All in one piece of water

So, you still haven't told me why a seaplane, properly managed, cannot share in the use of the harbour. Would the same reaction be made to the introduction of another fast ferry crossing the harbour 20 times/day?

[El Toro 97]

Since this thread has descended in to farce FNG, Ill bite, if they're allowed to do that 20 times a day, why cant a chopper land on the waters edge 3 times a day like one does in Herne Bay?

 

Im all for the seaplane, 100% and I for one will def be using it for one reason or another, just not skimming Bayswater when boats are rounding it.

 

I thought the point of wash into the MM from the ferries is a fair one, but I sure its been thought of.

 

My 2 cents worth, back to Mechanics, Im pretty sure the lease for the choppers there runs out shortly anyway, hence the new chopper landing pad at Pikes Point. Its where the seaplanes since time began landed.

 

Man sh*t must be hard to do with the web these days...

[Guest]

don't turn it up too loud

 

 

[Guest]

Hey PC I'm trying to stay neutral here, I don't make the rules, Just abide to the with what I do motorless.

 

Maybe not me has a better handle on the Stanley point chopper

 

Pop corn ?

[El Toro 97]

And so am I Gary..

 

I was trying to throw you to the lions, though not sure which pack, in regards to seaplanes off Stanely Point 20 times a day

 

Guess I need to work on my approach

[Changed 10]

Lovely FnG. You can't beat the howl of a big radial engine.

[idlerboat 116]

Woah,,,

a lot of trouble tonight...

First hellies are WAY louder than sea planes.

The first too land in my (land based patch, my family home) over 30 years ago resulted in my brother being run over by a car. Since then the peace and quiet of that place now has several ambulance hellies each day to the local hospitals...

The very front street has a NO TRUCKS rule....but the hellies vibrate the sh*t out of the windows.

So debate that one.....

 

Second...

Old aircraft ? Is NZs rules that rubbish ?

In OZ, for commercial aircraft they have to be as good as new.

That is air frame, skin, engine, electronics..etc have to be as new.

 

Third....noise.

Sea planes operate from Constitution Dock Tas,

Mac harbour...Tas...

The noise of "taxi" is no more than a V8 stink boat.

(think "adventure boats"

After that the take off, is usualy further out into a space that is just not that loud.

 

Fith...(I just did that for mr knotty ) all good my friend)

The pilots that I have met of sea planes are exceptional. If you are worried about a mast, then worry more about the landings they do up a steep sided river.

 

__________________________________________

 

In all seriousness, if the loss of amenety is your serious concern, then watch out for the hellies.

[Neilk 0]

looks like the plane in 'The Spanish Prisoner' -- Steve Martin in a serious role. good thriller by David Mamet.

[Guest]

I've tidied this thread up,keep it on topic or I'll get really grumpy.

[Bad Kitty 252]

I've tidied this thread up,keep it on topic or I'll get really grumpy.

 

 

Great, it was starting to look like sailing anarchy for a bit there.

[Guest]

On a quiet average day the seaplanes will be heard from up Queen St to Takapuna. On a real quiet day they will be heard further. I'm on the north side of Bayswater Penn and we can easily hear the container wharf working. On a very still day it can sound like it's next door when they drop a box hard. On a still night we can hear people going hard, after a drink or 17, in the bottom of town.

 

It's a city with a million people going about their business. A million people make noise. To expect total quiet is both naive and just silly especially when it's on so much water, the same water that allows sound to travel a long way.

 

Over here the locals seem to think, from snippets and chats about things some rotating, as NIMBY as many are, most seem to be OK with people getting on about their business as long as it's knot silly business or just noise making because they can. Hence I'd think that the seaplanes wouldn't be a issue but somes desires sure would be.

 

You can't compare the seaplanes to the Stanley point chopper. The only thing that is similar is they are both capable of flying. They are very different in noise levels, very different in the time span of that noise, different on where they want to operate even if it is sort of geographically close ish, very different in why they want to do what they want to do. There is just no good comparison. As there is none with Herne Bay.

 

As a FYI - a huge amount of the Stanley Pt angst was caused by how knot why.

[seaplanes 0]

Thank you for your feedback agreeing or otherwise.

 

A few clarifications

 

To Brien: the benefit of a seaplane is that you taxi away from the shore on a very low power setting, which means the aircraft sound is somewhere between a Harley and a tractor going at 5 kn, depending on whether you like the sound or not…

 

The take off is then several hundred meters from shore.

A few weeks ago we taxied the plane right into the berthing area of the Maritime Museum to have it on display for their 20th anniversary celebrations. I don’t think there was a single complaint about noise and we normally wouldn’t come so close.

 

Our acoustic reports measured the impact of the seaplanes at Princes Wharf was around 47dB, vs a background noise on Princes Wharf at the moment of about 57dB and a permitted noise level of 65 dB. As stated, the take off away from the shore is one of the core benefits of a seaplane vs. the helicopters. Also our planes can only operate during the day.

 

To Otto: A water aerodrome is an area of water for the “non-exclusive use”. That means everybody else can use that space as well, as per my comment from yesterday. There are no “fixed runways” different to an airport on land, so it is much easier to move around other traffic and make sure that there is a minimal effect on other users.

 

During the week, as user “FNG” showed in his post, the area west of the bridge is controlled by Whenuapai Air Force Base, which make operations there impractical. On weekends that control zone is normally not active, so we have that as a backup for busy days and we have agreed entry procedures with the Air Force already.

 

To Sundreamer. Re threats: I consider it a threat to say “we are well on the way to shutting you’re business without a full understanding on what we are trying to do/ what our processes are and how we are addressing other user’s concerns.

 

What has changed at Mechanics Bay since 89 is that now a lot more large ferries go to Waiheke, Rangitoto, Devonport, Half Moon Bay, Pine Harbour, etc. which disturbs the sea state a lot more. Not sure if you are a seaplane pilot, but we have had the water condition in the area assessed in detail by the Chief Pilot from Sydney Seaplanes. They are the only Seaplane operator in Australia/Pacific certified for scheduled operations, so I have to say they are probably the best experts you can get.

 

Yes, our aircraft is from the 1960s but seaplanes get overhauled/rebuilt regularly. Both engines and propellers on aircraft get exchanged for new ones regularly. Ours are near new i.e. 100 hours or less Not sure, why you need to slag the aircraft off? It is actually the 2nd lowest time Beaver aircraft in the world, since for the last 25 years it belonged to a gentleman in Vancouver, who used it mostly to fly to his fishing lodge and then parked it in a hangar. I think the Stewarts have also not been built in the last 5 years and they don’t seem to sink regularly when they go out to sail.

 

Separately, posting a video from a plane crash by a private pilot is a bit like the owner of launch, who doesn’t like sailboats posting a video of the Artemis AC 72 crash for all to enjoy!

 

Would you mind revealing your name, so at least I know who I am dealing with and can visit your hangar when I am next in Ardmore to try and see you in person.

 

Surroundings: Our Chief Pilot has flow in various places including Picton, where the seaplane base is right in the back of the harbour next to the Interislander ferry terminal and in between sailboat. There are lots of hills all around. His comment was that this is one of the least busy places that he has been to.. Granted ,it can be really busy, but 95 % of the time it is not and I think I have tried to explain what we will do to work around those busy times. I will post some more information on that tomorrow.

 

Our operating area has over water departure both to the North and East, in Sydney they only have it to the North.

 

If you want to speak to a neutral sailor that has been around seaplanes a lot, please go and ask Joe Goddard, the new GM of the Squadron, who lived in Rose Bay for a long time and I think will tell you what busy is. Sorry for putting you in Joe, but some people need to get perspective.

 

Entrance to Westhaven: I totally understand the scepticism of some of you around crowding, if Westhaven goes to one entry/exit in perhaps 2/3 years time, and my personal view on that idea is probably the same as the one of most of you. I guess WA makes the argument that less pile and more proper moorings are worth it, but this is not my place to comment.

 

Our Aircraft: When the DHC-2 Beavewas developed, it was intended to get a 300hp engine, but then due to surplus engines supplies it was upgraded to 450 hp. That’s why it is still probably is one the best seaplanes in the world.

 

My offer to meet and discuss any issue remains, as I said we want to work with other water users. You all got my contact details. Thanks Chris

[Deep Purple 511]

What I am Quoted as Saying

To Sundreamer. Re threats: I consider it a threat to say “we are well on the way to shutting you’re business without a full understanding on what we are trying to do/ what our processes are and how we are addressing other user’s concerns.

 

What I said - which by the way clearly relates to the area not the business as I have said many times, i'm not opposed to the idea, just the location

On the contrary, by operating within the rules they are also subject to the rules...... and moves are well afoot to deal with the problem, by the rules.

 

Interested to see how CO deals with deliberate misquoting as not everyone will go searching back to see what was actually said

 

I've tidied this thread up,keep it on topic or I'll get really grumpy.

 

 

Would you mind revealing your name, so at least I know who I am dealing with and can visit your hangar when I am next in Ardmore to try and see you in person.

 

Philip Hart, 021 960494 but I only go to Ardmore to go flying or see clients so why you'd want to visit my hangar I have no idea.

 

Since the Westhaven concern is dealt with, why can't you just address the reasons you feel a need to use the narrowest, busiest part of the harbour which puts the maximum risk on both harbour users and shore-based public to take off and land as opposed to the other areas mentioned which nobody has an issue with. It's not a hard question surely. Really thats the only issue here.

[Adrianp 119]

Hi Chris, Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

 

You've answered a lot of my concerns.

 

Good luck with the venture - I hope it works out profitable. I think it would be awesome to have the ability to get friends and family dropped to the boat at Kawau, Coromandel or Barrier!

[Chewing Gum 17]

I am not for or against until I see how the whole thing pans out, but from my experience of working at an airfield operating a Beaver as a parachute jump plane and flying in one they are slow revving, short take off and landing and not that noisy.

[Guest]

Did I see someone refer to Beaver

[Vorpal Blade 89]

Speaking of beavers this has to be added

 

I like the idea of a seaplane service, whats a trip to say Kawau actually going to cost and are they regularly scheduled or more of a taxi type service?