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Seeking input on PHRF


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CIORC have largely working with PHRF lately, however they have had discussions about engaging with the multi fleets. YNZ will make an approach to the Multihull YC to see if someone would like to come

The posting above by GUEST is ISAF wording they are promoting it / pushing it [ READ THEIR WORDING ] and the USA have joined the revolution towards it. Quoting Europe is a no argument. The argument is

That's no excuse if their is a better and fairer system.   OC

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Don't read this as disagreeing with comments re measurement, but :

 

Saying you're wanting more measurement is good and fine, my question and it's where I always get stuck is how?

 

Because if people can't answer that and in a manner that can be done objectively, transparently and applicable to the entire fleet then you have a system that no one will believe in.

 

Without the above the easiest solution is close to what we have, "want measurement based race IRC, want performance based, PHRF.

 

I've had a few half thoughts on how it might be done for NZ but I've heard no one else even make a start on the specifics of how (accepted Wild Oats comments which are good but limited). How does a decision for example as to whether a 930 should be on 0.725 or 0.800 get made and should an 88 be higher or lower?

 

What measurement solution (part or whole) would people trust?

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Mark - you and I have had this discussion for a while.

My point re measurement is as basic as the fact a Y11 will reach up the Coast quicker than a Farr 1020. But under the current results only philosophy this doesn't show. I'm not going to get into the skewed data from poor sample sizes that helps cause this either.

I also believe that if we took the 300 boats that had PHRF over the last 3 years we would agree on relative PHRF for Inshore / Offshore / and 2 handed for 80% of the fleet as read, we would observe and discuss obvious anomalies for the next 10% of the fleet in 30 minutes flat and then have to discuss and work through the not so obvious 9% of boats.1 hour. The last 1% - 3 boats - another hour....

And yes - I really believe it can be that simple - if people choose to make it so.

 

Note

For those who aren't aware, I was on the PHRF committee for several years, but resigned when I bought a marine business.

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Why do shorthanded crews race with both a shothanded h/cap and their normal h/cap in the Gold Cup, have their results listed for the shorthanded Div with shorthanded h/cap, but their normal h/cap (although shorthanded) for the combined division results? Why bother differentiating? Surely the recognition of having a lower handicap for being shorthanded, should warrant that handicap being used in the combined result??

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Why do shorthanded crews race with both a shothanded h/cap and their normal h/cap in the Gold Cup, have their results listed for the shorthanded Div with shorthanded h/cap, but their normal h/cap (although shorthanded) for the combined division results? Why bother differentiating? Surely the recognition of having a lower handicap for being shorthanded, should warrant that handicap being used in the combined result??

Totally agree

 

And how can a boat be faster short handed ?

Surely it could be as fast if you practiced but never faster ?

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The Gold Cup scoring is correct.

 

PHRF is (largely) performance based and each category is derived from racing within the respective categories. Though the numbers may be similar, they are independent of each other.

 

Put another way, your short handed handicap reflects how you've gone in short handed races, against other short handed boats. It doesn't reflect how we may think you would go if you were sailing short handed racing against fully crewed boats.

 

This means your short handed PHRF may be higher than your inshore handicap. When this happens, it doesn't mean the committee thinks your boat goes faster sailing short handed than fully crewed, only that you are sailing better relative to the fleet short handed than you are fully crewed.

 

For Gold Cup, the short handed division is scored short handed PHRF because, well they're all sailing short handed.

 

When in the main division, all boats are treated as if racing without crew restriction and therefore scored under inshore.

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Totally understand this Mark

It's just that they are seeking input into the PHRF

And I believe it would be more relevant if they were related, as in short handed boats could race on there SH rating against fully crewed boats on there inshore/offshore rating.

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