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Compulsory Crew Membership - What Do You Think?


grantmc

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Recently we've seen some keeler orientated yacht clubs bring in a compulsory crew membership. This typically takes the form that a crew member can only participate in Club racing a maximum of say 3 races: following this that person must become a member of the Club for the boat to qualify for race entry.

 

Really keen to know what you guys think and what proportion of keel boat Clubs have such a rule? So is this fair? Is this an intrusion to the boat owner's castle (so to speak)? After all why should a yacht club get to decide who goes on your boat? Is it just a backdoor way for a yacht club to increase members or does it create more harm than good?

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A lovely thought and certainly considered by a lot of clubs but impractical and unfair on boat owner.

 

Who would police this - I have a core of 15 people I call on for crew and who would monitor who has paid, has done their three races etc.

 

As the yacht owner, I need crew to successfully race and yes, about half my crew do belong to clubs but only because they are yacht owners in their own right.

 

Some Class Nationals certainly insist on crew belonging to clubs and I see no problem with this - in fact my Club has a Crew Membership category.

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While I think that everyone should pull their weight and join a club, I also think the club membership structure really holds the sport back.

 

I also do open water swimming, and when I want to do a swimming event, I pay a decent entry fee (about $50) to participate, but I don't have to pay a membership fee or put my name on a roster or sit on a committee. I swim, enjoy a bit of post race hospitality, and go home.

 

I think the membership framework worked really well in the past, but now it's an obstacle to participation.

 

For example, right now (thanks to injury) I very rarely sail but I am thinking about entering my dinghy into a regatta next month knowing I'll have to cough up an entire year's subs for the privilege - makes it an expensive day's sailing. Obviously if you sail every weekend, then it's very reasonable but it's very much all or nothing.

 

I think we need to look at sports - like SUP, triathlon, swimming, etc that are currently very successful and growing, but which are run more like businesses, and take what we can from them.

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Ridiculous idea.

 

This is a problem that has haunted clubs for years.

 

From a crews perspective - why pay a club for a service you do not use.

 

Many crew sail on boats then never use the club. They are typically helping a boat owner to sail his boat and it is the boat owner that benefits from the crew members help not the club.

 

Why should a crew member who never uses the club pay the club.

 

In fact, don,t take this the wrong way, but if a person buys a yacht to race and it requires crew to race it, then should'ntt the owner pay the crew for helping him race his yacht - including membership fees?

 

If crew have to pay to crew on a boat then pay club fees then this is probably one good reason why people will not crew.

 

Sure clubs are suffering lower income thanks to drink drive / high street booze prices / stagnant membership... but trying to charge crew who do not use the bar/club is a sure way to alienate people (crew and owners)

 

Overseas most owners cover the costs including sailing gear etc. The owners are wealthy and can afford it. In NZ poorer owners need a crew fund. If crew have to pay membership as well as crew funds... well that could put people off.

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I don't think its really workable either. crew membership is just another barrier to getting guys to come and crew with you. I've sailed in wellington where there seems to be more crew available than boats and Auckland where finding crew is a real challenge as there are lots of boats and not many crew.

 

We need to make our sport as accessible as possible not put up barriers. I do think the boat owner should be a member and feel that we all need to contribute to running the club.

The crew should feel obliged to join if they're using the facilities. But don't make it compulsory.

I'm fully against the trend that seems to be happening in other sports where you pay huge entry fees and the organizers seem to make a killing out of running "trendy" events.

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the answer isn't compulsary membership, the answer is charging the right price at the bar and a number of clubs do it effectively, turn up for a beer and your not a member, $8 plus just like a normal bar, swipe your club card and it is $4ish, all of a sudden there is a good reason to become a member

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I'd say it would make finding a good crew almost impossible. It's hard enough to get a good crew as it is, and if a particularly good crew member didn't want to take up the membership I would end up paying the fee to keep them on the boat. Who comes up with these ideas?

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Agree with what has been said, and being on a yacht club board we have had the discussion plenty of times.

 

One thing to point out however is (And i will have to dig out my rule book for the exact wording) that in the Racing rules of sailing it says that all competitors (Crew) must be a member of a yacht club affiliated with the national body.

 

That is why alot of nationals require crew to declare what club they are a member of, Club racing this tends to be forgotten otherwise we eliminate alot of crew from being able to have a go. but it is written and in the rules...

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Making crew join the club is a bad idea for many reasons.

 

The last thing we want to do to NZ sailing is encourage elitism.

 

Open the doors to all and sundry, reduce the barriers to participation, foster friendship and inclusion. More people taking part in things means more voters involved and more likely to take part and have a voice in things that are important.

 

Loose associations of like minded folk.

 

If 500 people owned yachts and decided to have a race, no clubs involved, every other week. How would YNZ and insurance companies see that? Illegal? No insurance because you're not part of a YNZ affiliated club? Too much red tape. Go out and have fun.

 

Race your mates around the barrier.

 

"I'll race yous all and wager a half drunk bottle of rum that I'll come in 4th or better"... That kind of thing. From these wagers, over time, are traditions born.

 

With the internet, and social networking, do we need clubs in the formal sense? I'm not trolling of trying to make inflammatory statements, but I'm asking what value they bring to the average bloke with a yacht and 2.4 kids.

Large groups of people doing the same kind of things are organized purely through facebook or other websites everyday.

 

Infact, one of the most well attended races of the year is organized through crew.org... albeit aided and abetted by the folk at a friendly yacht club.

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Disagree DrW, not about compelling crew to join clubs, that's silly, about 'informal' racing.

 

Insurance will insist on formal structure to racing, and in my view rightly so. Racing comes with additional risk and those covering the costs of those risks are not unreasonable to expect it to be conducted under clearly defined rules and structure. They do after all base the additional charge to cover that risk on the assumption that it will be done in that manner.

 

If you're not an organised event, then collregs apply and notwithstanding some peoples view to the contrary, you can not race properly without being in serious violation of the collregs at times. Starts and mark roundings are clasic examples of this.

 

And I would use exactly the example you've sited and to my knowledge two incidents in the past three years to support that view. At the end of the day in that event, if anyone wants to protest to establish fault the answer is that it's not a formal race, there isn't any protest mechanism, sort it out between yourselves and your insurers. Eventually and if an incident is serious enough, an insurer is going to say no.

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Fair enough, and good points. Fully agree that the presence of a club, under the current insurance structures, is required to enable fairplay and insurance.

 

My post was more looking at is there "another way"?

 

Maybe we all belong to YNZ, and the clubs charge for entry, and entry to the bar. If your a member of the club your races are cheaper and your drinks are cheaper.

 

I dunno. It's evident there are issues with the current system, and we have to look outside the box, or club, for the answer.

 

How about asking non-club members (members of no club) $5 at the door? No fee for crewing.

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Why won't / don't people want to join the club is really a more relevant question.The club we sail with offers very little other than premises and a race start / finish.As skipper / owner / member I pay and pay.Introduce this compulsory nonsense and that will be yet another entry lost because I won't have enough crew. Compulsory club membership precludes some from nationals already. Clubs can be clicky little enclaves and daunting for 'outsiders'.Much easier just to avoid them. Compulsory membership will assist in killing them off a bit quicker

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The clubs orgainse the racing - that isn't a free service.

Support the club and join. Maybe not eery club, but you shoudl be a member of some club at least.

to do anything but is a bit rude if you are a regular racer.

At one stage I was a member of 3 clubs, as I want to support the clubs that host the racing for me. (I was a skipper at one club and crewed at 2 others)

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Pretty sure it's compulsory to be a member at Port Nic (Wellington) to race in their weekend races? Something about "random crew checks will take place after races" written in the sailing instructions... Will see if I can find it.. Always seemed like a ridiculous idea to me when half the reason we couldn't get out sailing was because we never had enough crew for the yacht...

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Found it... From the NOR...

 

4.3 Entries shall be accepted from RPNYC boats and from visiting boats.

4.4 RPNYC boats:

(a) To be eligible to compete, the boat must be registered on the RPNYC Boat Register.

(B) To be eligible to compete, the person in charge of the entrant and each crew member

must be a qualifying person.

© A qualifying person is:

(i) a Senior Member, Junior Member, Family Member, Veteran Member or an

Honorary Life Member of the RPNYC; or

(ii) a General Member who is a current financial senior member of another YNZ and

WYA affiliated yacht club, provided that the person has sailed in fewer than 10

RPNYC races in the current financial year; or

(iii) a General Member who, not then being a member of RPNYC, completed a

Wellington Ocean Sport Centre course within two months prior to application for

membership, and became a General Member in the current financial year; or

(iv) a current financial member of an Affiliated Club, provided that the person’s details

have been provided to the RPNYC by the Affiliated Club member.

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So how many members does a club need to be affiliated?

 

Any rules like the Port Nic one just seem ridiculous and destined to result in lesser numbers of entrants and dwindling memberships in general. Clubs have to move with the times and adjust to the changing way in which society works, or they will all die out.

 

I know it take time and some money to run races - I don't dispute that.

 

But, truth be told, I'd never have really got into sailing if I'd have had to get a club membership to crew on my friend's yacht during races.

 

Now I'm happy to join a club and race with my own boat.

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Why won't / don't people want to join the club is really a more relevant question.
Give that Admiral another Battle Group. He's asking the question the right way.
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Maybe there should be a "pay per race" crew cost that is less than the member ship cost.

 

why should a senior member who crews pay the same as a owner?

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