2 handed the future...

[Guest]

From my perspective it makes a lot of sense extending the number of 2 handed "long races". Within NZ sailing waters

 

The success of these events coupled with the obvious advantages and challenges make 2 handed a very strong "style of racing" for the future.

 

The reduced costs, crew, hassells and drama's are appealing, Combine this with the challenges and experiences, it takes yacht racing to a new level. (Fun, bang for buck, challenges, team work...)

 

Why could there not be a national 2 handed regatta for keel boats?

 

Maybe even international Auckland to Sydney events or even a around the pacific event with various stopovers.

 

But locally there could be many sailors interested in local events from 2 day up to the RNZ event.

 

2 handed racing really appeals to me and I think it has a stronger future than fully crewed events.

 

What do people think.

[RushMan 31]

Where does the next generation of sailors come from if everyone is sailing two handed races?

[Guest]

Eh?

 

There's plenty of parents ashore who can have kids or...

 

Sex does not stop because people go out two handed sailing.

 

Or...

 

15,year holds sail in dingy's, of which 0ver 90 % are either single handed or two handed

 

Take your pick on the silly answer that fits that silly question

[Guest]

From my perspective it makes a lot of sense extending the number of 2 handed "long races". Within NZ sailing waters

 

The success of these events coupled with the obvious advantages and challenges make 2 handed a very strong "style of racing" for the future.

 

The reduced costs, crew, hassells and drama's are appealing, Combine this with the challenges and experiences, it takes yacht racing to a new level. (Fun, bang for buck, challenges, team work...)

 

Why could there not be a national 2 handed regatta for keel boats?

 

Maybe even international Auckland to Sydney events or even a around the pacific event with various stopovers.

 

But locally there could be many sailors interested in local events from 2 day up to the RNZ event.

 

2 handed racing really appeals to me and I think it has a stronger future than fully crewed events.

 

What do people think.

 

I think you're right. But I think Aucklanders at least have enough already. Nothing stopping anyone doing any of the traditionally fully crewed races two handed, some do.

Doesn't really lend itself to windward leeward races so a regatta might not fly but the simrad series seems to cover that for a series. Indeed, very popular. The new triangle race out of Wellington is a further indication of where we're heading. And two handed divisions are common now in major races like White Island and the coastal. All good, it's growing naturally.

[RushMan 31]

Eh?

 

There's plenty of parents ashore who can have kids or...

 

Sex does not stop because people go out two handed sailing.

 

Or...

 

15,year holds sail in dingy's, of which 0ver 90 % are either single handed or two handed

 

Take your pick on the silly answer that fits that silly question

Let me put it a different way....

 

If all the skippers only need to find one crew to go two handed racing, do you think they will take an inexperienced "crew" over someone with experience.

 

"Sorry young fella, you can't come racing, I need someone with experience."

 

So where does the next generation gain that experience?

[banaari 27]

Bunkum! :)

Progression goes like this: P-class, Optimist, Laser, Piedy, (insert monotonically increasingly series of generic keelers here none of which really need more than 1 crew, let alone 2), IMOCA 60

[Guest]

Eh?

 

There's plenty of parents ashore who can have kids or...

 

Sex does not stop because people go out two handed sailing.

 

Or...

 

15,year holds sail in dingy's, of which 0ver 90 % are either single handed or two handed

 

Take your pick on the silly answer that fits that silly question

Let me put it a different way....

 

If all the skippers only need to find one crew to go two handed racing, do you think they will take an inexperienced "crew" over someone with experience.

 

"Sorry young fella, you can't come racing, I need someone with experience."

 

So where does the next generation gain that experience?

 

The next generation should never ever be thinking about keel boats until they have mastered dingies.

 

If the next generation want to skip dingies for keel boats then they need to be rejected, as you suggest, inorder to keep the good old bastards racing.

 

Also the more we keep youngsters in dingoes the better our sailing and sailors will be. To many young sailors jump to keel boats to soon and then leave sailing bored after sitting on the rail doing bigger all.

[RushMan 31]

And the youngsters sitting on the rail is what you will lose with 2 handed sailing. They will graduate through dinghies while the parents pay the bills, never be invited to sail the keel boats so will find something else to do.

 

Catch 22.... The SIMRAD series and RNI cater to the 2 handed sailing, does there need to be more?

 

Single handed racing... That in my mind shouldn't be run within a fully crewed fleet.

[PaulR 3]

So how to get youngersters interested and BUSY sailing.

The old Thames barges and fishing smacks, our own NZ scows etc often sailed with "2 men and a boy".

Nothing wrong with the SIMRAD series or many of our other races.

 

So perhaps SIMRAD could have an allowance for "two men and a boy".

Perhaps an upper age limit of say 15 years.

 

Perhaps a adjustment for every year over 70's there could be an extra year added onto the youth upper age limit.

So a crew of 73yrs + 42yrs could have a youth up to 15+3 = 18 years.

 

So a crew will be One Old Fart + A man + a boy.

Men & boys can be equally Old Tart + a Lady + a girl or any other combination.

 

I could even work that factor into the OLD FARTS RUM for the SIMRAD as well, perhaps with an allowance for boys/girls under 15 so having an 8yr old on board would help your handicap.

 

Are we there yet

[Black Panther 1,581]

or a total age limit, if it was 100 you'd be allowed 5x 20 yo, or 4x 25 yo;2x50 yo etc. But it would get mixed up. A 50 yo owner could have a crew of 5x10 yo or2x25yo.BTW most youngsters sailing dinghies find the thought of sitting on a rail for 100 miles horribly boring.

[wheels 543]

The next generation should never ever be thinking about keel boats until they have mastered dingies.

 

If the next generation want to skip dingies for keel boats then they need to be rejected, as you suggest, inorder to keep the good old bastards racing.

Bollocks.

[DrWatson 374]

I agree that 2 handed racing is something that could be expanded as findign enouhg crew is often a b'tch.

 

But I heartily disagree with the sentiment that you shouldn't go racing in keelers if you didn't race dinghies.

 

Every man who sails starts somewhere, and why should we shun those who learnt later in life and wished to do so in a boat that doesn't tip them in the sea?

 

I learnt to sail in keelers and then moved to a 14ft skiff. It was a steep learning curve, but also great fun.

 

Formulated progressions be damned.

[Guest]

If there was a rule where you could only use one hand whilst racing maybe some of the younger generation may come along, as they could still text and fb with the other

[Guest]

The next generation should never ever be thinking about keel boats until they have mastered dingies.

 

If the next generation want to skip dingies for keel boats then they need to be rejected, as you suggest, inorder to keep the good old bastards racing.

Bollocks.

exactly" "that's what young kids don't have enough of to sail big boats"

 

by the way Wheels my comments were a bit Tongue N Cheek

 

it think two handed sailing gets more boats out being used. especially the ones that need big crew that they either can't get or cannot afford (costs of racing big boats with big crew)

 

... therefore more youngsters get a go if more boats go out.

[Scubash 0]

I disagree that you have to follow a specific line of boats to learn how to sail. I am a perfect example of someone who has not... Albeit I still have a lot to learn, but I am learning! I only started sailing 2.5 years ago and now I own my own boat and want to do the solo trans tasman.

 

What I do think to be a good sailor, is that everyone should learn every position no matter the size of the boat. I also think the best way should be from front to back. Being on the bow you learn how important that everyone in the back do their job correctly so that you can do yours. Obviously more so keyboard and steering. Having this knowledge when you move your way back you already perform better, well at least that is how I perceive it.

 

The idea of more races is great! That they NEED to create more 2 handed not so necessary, but at the same time I would not knock if they did. As mentioned before, you can do any race 2 handed if you want, and most have a specific division for this. That they should completely can fully crewed races for more 2 handed races, I would have to completely disagree. This is how I got the opportunity to learn and I think its a fantastic way. Also it helps not so experienced skippers have a chance to get out there and race as well. Why should only expert fully experienced sailors have the opportunity to race?

 

This is why we have divisions, different types of races of all levels and courses, and well, handicaps of course... so that ANYONE and EVERYONE can race! From single handed to fully crewed, from dinghies to super yachts, boys and girls, from small children to old men wanting to sail around the world in a bath tub! There is no limit when it comes to racing/sailing and everyone on everything (safely) should be encouraged to do so!

 

If only 2 handed racing was available, I would have never had the opportunity to race and learn like I have. And I most certainly wouldn't be where I am today owning my own boat and achieving the goals I set out for myself!

[Guest]

To be a good skipper at a high level the facts speak for themselves in most cases...

 

do the dingy's first will produce a better sailor/racer.

 

To get into sailing and be a good sailor....

 

start where you like.

[Black Panther 1,581]

I think there are bigger issues not being addressed like cost and handicapping that are holding the sport back.

[Cameron 75]

While so many yachts sit in their marina berths relatively unused I'd find it hard to accept the argument that more Two Handed sailing reduces the opportunities for younger people to get involved.

I'd like to hope a surplus of available crew could encourage some owners to get back out there...

[wheels 543]

I think your thinking it slightly backwards. No Not backward thinking. The reason why some get good at racing sailing is that they wanted to. It's attitude first rather than Skill. The skill is something you learn and the level of skill is sorted out there in the place you get across the line. But without the competitive want to achieve something, the person will never be any better than a "Sunday afternoon club racer". A competitive nature is an attitude.

So those that want to really compete, tend to choose a class that,

1:they can afford.

2: they want to compete in and that is often determined by how far that class can take them.

Then when you come across those that have made it to a high level in Sailing, you will find they sail in just about any class if the class is going to get them to something meaningful. Like a world series of such and such, or Olympics or whatever.

I learned to sail on a PT, out on a local lake all on my own. No one else ever sailed on the Lake. But I didn't really "learn to sail" as such. It wasn't till I got into Keelboat racing that I learned to sail. If I went back to the PT now, I would actually know how to really sail it.

 

I think there are bigger issues not being addressed like cost and handicapping that are holding the sport back.

Actually I don't think either are a problem. All sports are expensive full stop. The two major issues we have today are, Kids have no competitive nature anymore. Hardly any of them are interested in sport, unless it's on Xbox and you use your two thumbs. Just as FNG said, if they could txt with one hand while controlling the boat with the other, we have have at least a small number more involved. Plus it's a Microwave Generation now. They stand in front of a microwave wondering why it takes an excruciatingly long 10seconds to heat something. They can send 5.2 txts in that time.

[PaulR 3]

Being bored with nothing to do is a big problem, especially with the youth. I agree that sitting on the rail with nothing much to do for most of the time is DEAD BORING.

 

Likewise courses that become after 5 minutes aftyer the start, a simple follow the leader for the next 10+ hours = BORING.

 

My two man and a boy comments were to have an active youth running about doing all the adjustments, fetch and carry, check position / plotting etc. so he/she would be busy, really busy all day long doing stuff.

 

So perhaps we need to try a few races where all the crew must rotate positions regularily. So in a 2hr rum race, every 15 minutes all swap about could be one way to let all have a turn helming, trimming etc

Would work for all boats no matter the number of crew aboard except for those single handed sailors who can't decide which hand to use anyway

 

Another feature, from racing in the Solent years ago, is that with our brilliant visibility and great sailing conditions, we have very few races where navigational decisions are critical. Which way to go after rounding xyz mark To the island or mainland shore

 

Perhaps we need some races where there are a series of buoys/islands that can be rounded in any order or alternatives

e.g. Marks in a choice of: abcd or adbc or acdb etc order.

 

I agree with Scubash. New sailors / beginners are better learning in a crew of 4 or more on a boat vs starting single handidly with oh so much to learn.

 

For my own daughters (7 to 11yrs), jumping straight into an opti was a big step. Perhaps going in a crew of 3 or 4 in a larger dinghy would have been a better introduction. Girls seem to learn better in a team, and from what I have seen, most boys don't need that as they know it all anyway. (My 2cents of life)