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MrWolf

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Posts posted by MrWolf

  1. We could have a thread where people can post pictures of their upside down multi. I've got a nice sequence on mine coming back up! It's pretty much a fact of racing a raft. At some point you're going to flip it.

     

    Its not the ideal time to be making comments such as these.

  2. Can I please take your 50' Proa for a sail, PLEASE Rob.

     

    I would love to sail it for you in this years Coastal if the trial sail pans out.

     

    I have checked my previous posts in fairness to you and feel in the main part there is little personal attack

    and some very useful information there.Some of the initial "doubt" is actually directed at claims by David that there would be a 700kg, 50 foot proa in last years coastal that was going to spank every one.

     

    I expected you would not like to meet me because I am very loud when I disagree with someone and can often times be unconcionably rude.

    It would also be highly inappropriate to attend your talk with the intention of bagging your ideas all the way through (as some people seemed to expect me to do).

     

    So how about it Rob, can I take her for a sail. (I freely admit I will need lessons on shunting).

  3. Rob

     

    It may not come across that we all do wish you well, we are all keen to see more multi's out racing. And a budget version of a 50 footer will be an awesome sight and if it consistently beats Taeping that is fantastic.

     

    I really do wish you all the best.

  4. I am actually really looking forward to seeing the Proa racing, in fact I just can't wait. It would be great to have a bunch of them sailing.

     

    But for you to come away from a club night with 4 confirmed orders.

     

    Mate you have done very well there.

     

    A lot of people talk about it at club night but never actually go on to do anything about it, and we all know times out there are very tough

    so even though some people may have the best of intentions in the world you may not get quite as many of them sailing as you wish.

     

    Budgets:

    Rob all your budgets and costs never allow for your time, you are only ever talking materials.

    How can you compare those figures with others that include labour?

    Your boat isn't costing $10k unless you will sell it to me for that much, then because you are building 4 you will have build them all for nothing with no way to cover your overheads.

  5. On a more serious note I did ask Murray Jones (Alinghi) how much of their budget and time they used in investigating a Proa instead of a cat or a tri.

     

    The answer was they did not view the Proa as a serious option.

     

    I will speculate on just a few possible reasons why.

     

    Think of a Tuna swimming in the water. Its body shape is very streamlined. Its far from symmetrical at both ends.

    asking your hull and foils to go both ways through the water ,they simply cannot be as efficient.

     

    Rig:

     

    I don't like your rig.

    The other AC boats have stays, I think there are some good reasons for those.

    The super efficient BMW wing was held in place by stays and without them you wouldn't be able to raise and lower the rig.

     

    They also have a mainsheet and traveller for leach control and to depower in gusts.

    I don't see how you can sheet your sails as effectively.

     

    The gennakers need a tight luff to work, and that will cause the tip of your mast to bend forward, so not sure how effective that will be.

    I also note that they don't sheet their gennakers dead on the centreline at the back as you are going to have to. Seems like you will end up with less forward drive and more sideways drag.

  6. Now back to your first match racing scenario:

     

    unfortunately for you the on the water jury has ruled against you and your sallyproa as you have not afforded Taeping reasonable room and opportunity to keep clear.

     

    (By the way your smugness and over confidence has gone down badly with the International jury as well)

     

    So you have to complete a penalty turn.

     

    Rules are a 360 turn including 1 tack and one gybe.

     

    So we know you don't do those, although I know you can.

     

    anyway, rules are rules, so no shunting allowed.

     

    I'm thinking as you complete your circle that the mainsheet is going to go around the mast.

    So after completing the turn you are going to have to do another turn the other way to untangle it !

     

    I have also noticed in your description of a shunt you have not allowed for turning on and off your nav lights.

     

    You will need two sets of bow and stern, nav lights and you will need to hit a switch to turn the appropriate set on or off.

  7. Rob

     

    please do not take it any other way than we are just having a bit of a laugh.

     

    we aren't stupid and know you have heaps of really good ideas, and power to weight is the king and on that front you will be very hard to beat.

     

    But we are allowed to speculate and a little humour at times can be good for the soul.

  8. Cat 5 YNZ Safety regulations, clause 7.4 (M):

     

    "A multihull yacht shall possess sufficient windward ability and assurance of coming about in

    bad conditions to enable her to tack away from a lee shore or other extensive obstruction"

     

    Tell me this, when you shunt do you not go backwards (to leeward) at some point ?

     

    So based on the above you can't get cat 5 in NZ, so too bad for you all the boastful statements you are making

    can't be tested because you won't be allowed to race.

     

    As to the Americas cup being in Proas, mate take a look at yourself !

  9. Don't keep talking it up !

     

    Just get on with it, and do it.

     

    You are so full of hot air it is ridiculous.

     

     

    I don't even think a Proa can get cat 5 safety certificate.

     

    Because any multihull must be able to show sufficient windward capability to be able to tack off a lee shore in a strong breeze.

     

    No mention there of shunting eh !

     

    Looks like you're screwed before you even begin

  10. Yea i was thinking water pressure.. Thinking aloud about what the effect of submerging a sealed tube but leaving half of it at atmospheric pressure would be.? The bottom of the tube still going to crumple or nope? Because fully submerged it wouldnt take alot of depth.

     

    More thinking aloud, what does the Wolf weigh in at? The strain on the cordage would be primarily due to the positive bouancy and trying to re submerge below the centre of bouancy wouldnt it.

    That damage is just awful, would be a shame to see it happen to the next one to go down side up.

     

    Take a look at the damage, its on the hard at Okahu.

     

    The area damaged isn't under water when it happens.

     

    The furthest anything goes under the water righting it is only about 3 metres (possibly 5 psi), and there is no other damage to any other sealed hulls ?

     

    Where as the damage is a classic egg shell compressive failure !

     

    Plus I imagine in a water pressure explosion as soon as there is one small hole the pressure would equalise quite quickly ?

  11. if they righted it end over end then the arse would have sunk down when the bows came up, pressure built up in the hull then finally.. POP!

     

     

    Wrong Jordan.

     

    This was a compressive failure, we know this because the break is inwards.

     

    Not an outward explosion like you describe.

     

    There is a risk associated with "egg Shell" methods of construction such as Tortured ply, this is what happens when they fail.

     

     

    If the hole were due to the pressure difference, it would be an inward break would it not.? Plausable explanation i think? I would never have expected a hole such as that, cracks and splits sure but that hole is interesting. I cannot work out how you would place those two surfaces under sufficient compressive load to do that damage, with out completly rooting the a fair bit more. Or to ppl who know, is that a familiar type?

     

    Good luck with the repair.

     

    What water pressure ?

     

    The rope load is in excess of at least 6 tonnes due to the type of ropes they were breaking.

    The beam (bridle attachment point) is only 2 metres infront of the boats centre of buoyancy (pivot point).

     

    the way it failed is classic compressive failure, the hole you see on the site is only a baby compared with the outside.

  12. That is just the saddest sight! Hopefully not too much work to get her sailing again.

     

    Looks like its going to be at least 3 months before wolfy is sailing again

  13. if they righted it end over end then the arse would have sunk down when the bows came up, pressure built up in the hull then finally.. POP!

     

     

    Wrong Jordan.

     

    This was a compressive failure, we know this because the break is inwards.

     

    Not an outward explosion like you describe.

     

    There is a risk associated with "egg Shell" methods of construction such as Tortured ply, this is what happens when they fail.

  14. [Mr Wolf,

    Did they right the boat end over end or sideways?

    Curious as to how the float saw so much compression

     

    They righted it end over end.

     

    The Main beam is quite far aft on Wolfy, so it has very little leverage just as its coming up, so I'd guess that's what caused it.

     

    i don't know of any tri's righted sideways, they just drag across the surface of the water.

     

    To stop it dragging they had two guys sitting on each float to hold it down so ther back would dig in, then after that happens the bow can lift out.

     

    They broke some very heavy rope so i'd guess they are seeing in the region of 6 tonnes of load.

  15. excuse my ignorants

    how did it turn turtle? just a wind gust? water looks very flat so I would not have thought it would have burred the nose into the back of a wave

     

    They sent it, and it went arse over bow.

     

    No waves were required just a plenty strong gust.

  16. Was the hole caused in the impact with the water in the capsize, or beforehand? seems pretty nasty!

     

    Best of luck getting her back on the water, The Wolf always looks good out there!

     

    The hole was caused as the boat was being righted, and it caused by the massive amount of compression between the centre of buoyancy and the beam on which the bridle was attached.

    The boom also only broke at the very last instant of being righted.

     

    The outside of the boat the hole is the full side of the boat around 2m long and is far worse than the photo's on the site.

  17. For the life of me I cannot see why Fullfoil is making comments such as those.

     

    I am very grateful for all the help in getting wolfie upright again.

    Adam and Russell off Taeping went out of their way to help the Coastguard who were just awesome.

     

    No one should criticise any of the crew, they have all the sailed the boat many times before. I had complete faith in them when I lent them my boat, and I am even more impressed by all of their characters right now, I couldn't have left my boat in better hands.

    In Kate we are very lucky to have a super experienced multihull crew who punches miles above her weight and is very willing to get in and do all the dirty jobs. She puts most guys I've ever sailed with to shame, and there isn't another multi out there that wouldn't jump at the chance to have her sail with them.

     

    wolfy is a brute of a boat in those conditions and that is what I love about him.

    It is very challenging to push it hard enough to be fast but stay within safe bounds. The Coastal start is a highlight where Wolfy was just on FIRE !

     

    The multi club is a great bunch of guys who band together tightly in times of adversity. The offers of help have been fantastic. I wouldn't want to be doing anything else.

     

     

    BTW, we won our Badminton tie in Whangarei !

  18.  

    Pity for who ?

     

    Anybody who would like to know the price of a Hall Spar mast section for an 8.5 who is genuinely in the market for one is most welcome to call us up.

    Quoting on a rig package is a time consuming process that for us begins with an engineering analysis of the boat we are quoting the rig for.

    8.5's are not all the same and each requires a custom rig solution.

     

    Good luck for your article.

     

    Pity for me, I would have liked to meet you. .

     

    No you wouldn't !

  19.  

    Tim, pity you didn't come to the talk. Any chance of replying to my email to Sue (Hall spars office lady) with some prices of sections suitable for an 8.5 so I can get my article finished? Suspect this would be a better use of your time than posting old pop song lyrics.

     

     

     

    rob

     

    Pity for who ?

     

    Anybody who would like to know the price of a Hall Spar mast section for an 8.5 who is genuinely in the market for one is most welcome to call us up.

    Quoting on a rig package is a time consuming process that for us begins with an engineering analysis of the boat we are quoting the rig for.

    8.5's are not all the same and each requires a custom rig solution.

     

    Good luck for your article.

  20. Other thing you said was a freedom rig costs the same as an alloy rig.

    Are you saying that if an off the shelf alloy rig for my boat was 7K, a spar maker could build me a carbon "freedom" rig for the same kind of money? if thats what you think name the company who would do it.

     

     

    "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose " Kris Kristofferson

  21. For what its worth, there is some good advice on here.

     

    Basically the Nova was designed with the large overlapping genoa you currently have.

    It needs that sail to get performance in lighter airs.I think a lot of sailing in Auckland is done in less than 15 knots and hence that big genoa will more than pay its way.

     

    As the breeze increases you can get away with a number 2, similar hoist, shorter foot.

     

    I think the correct solution is not so much to cut down the old sail size (as you can probably do with the power in a majority of the sailing you are likely to do) but rather to make the furled sail a lot more efficient.

    The padded foam (or whatever) is the solution to that.

    In the short term I'm sure you can retrofit that system to your existing sail to try to improve the furled shape.

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