TwoSail

July 23, 2019

Dinghy with a centre console will be quite a hassle to store on board... Maybe on transom davits but then it's in the way of your fishing. And you'll struggle to fit a 12 foot dinghy of the foredeck of a lotus 10.6. we carry a 2.8m (9ft?) Dinghy on the foredeck of the 39 footer and it's a squeeze.

Yes that was my original thoughts davits, but would block my fishing. 10.5ft would be the minimum for a RIB for dive purposes, but would fly with the 9.8.

Yes I do feel my price requirements increasing, as long as I have solid reasonings for them :-)

I looked at the Farr Bavaria 37, I couldnt believe a Bavaria that sails quite nicely. its $300k new, so lets say something 5 years old is possible for $200k? To me that is justifiable. Not saying thats what I intend to spend. My heart is set on the Aussie Cat (used), but things can be stepping stones.

You/We all know how hard it is to stay off the ocean. But yes I do need to keep the budget in check. Just for a bit longer.

July 23, 2019

Wheel is just personal preference, as its a cruiser, feel is not so important to her. I get why some prefer tillers, it also brings us back to how we learnt to sail dinghies as kids, which is part of feel. But its not on the plans and Im ok with missing out on the other boats and limiting my options.

I REALLY like the look of the Lotus Mk2, Ive seen a couple done up and they scrub up nicely. 35 feet to the Islands would be a challenge, not one I am scared of.

Ive also noticed a lot of large cabin sloops with wheel houses inside, that might be up her ally. Technically arent most yachts sloops, from wiki "A sloop is a sailing boat with a single mast typically meaning one headsail in front of the mast, and one mainsail aft of (behind) the mast"

I think getting use to something like the Lotus will be just a confidence thing for the lady to go to the islands. I would not go without modern safety gear and electronics fitted either.

A big issue for me is, I was a 12ft centre console RIB for spearfishing and exploring once we have moored at set location. Especially GBI where ive never had a bad day spearing. 12ft centre console just wouldnt be possible on the bow would it? The stern it would block any game fishing I had planned to do when under way. I prefer fiberglass, I had a Caribe 14 prior and they use large pontoons, 50cm. In fact I use to take that out from Gulf Harbour and cover most of the Gulf including LB with gas, but 2 x 25l yamaha totes are made to fit between the stern seats, really good system, had a tiller gear shift 3cyl yamaha 40 repropped and foiled for hole shot and I could fully load the dinghy with people and gear and it was always immediate hole shot. But my expectations on size and using ally hull for weight are realistic given a 35ft yacht is not going to handle a heavy 14ft caribe and large 40hp.

So I am think 12ft ally hull and 18hp Tohatsu 2 stroke which is the same weight as a yammy 15hp. Given its mostly just myself and the Mrs, that is plenty, in fact I could even drop to a 9.8 tohatsu which is the weight of an 8hp. 10ft is too small, 12 ft in ally would be limited to fairly low winds and swell around the Islands. Once at location I would likely tow the dinghy if moving location locally until ready for voyage back.

Thanks everyone for the input. I was going to wait until we could afford the Cat and just keep power boating, but I miss being out there with a few lures being towed behind, making for really amazing holidays and big fish without the cost of a big engine off shore fly-bridge cruiser. maybe I am alone in the romantic idea of letting the wind do the work in trolling lures :-)

July 23, 2019

Its amazing you dont really see a lot of age difference unless you double your money. In some ways I wonder if I am better off buying a good used hull and having it refurbishing the interior (why was purple so trendy in the 80s eeeek), re built engine, new sails if needed, basically buying one of the recommended hulls at a good price and putting a bit of money into it. Im also not a huge fan of the look of wood in a boat, I know its traditional, but I much prefer the look of lighter coloured laminates used in modern Cats etc.

What is the minimum size I should be considering for a coastal blue water sailer, ie up to 3 kings, out to GBI? Is the Lotus 10.6 too small? I like its layout and its the smallest yacht with a wheel helm. I could easily add a swim platform but the MK2 I like has a built in boarding platform which looks to be plenty accessible to fish to haul aboard. 35ft should be sweet for the kinds of voyages I plan on right?

Im pretty competent in my sailing ability, but nothing beats length when it comes to an unexpected 40 knots which "can" spring up out of nowhere, Ive seen it happen plenty of times on both sail boats and game fishing power boats.

July 23, 2019

The Cavalier does indeed look like a beauty from the past. One I cant afford but love the internal layout of is the spencer 43.

I like to game fish and want to do so while sailing as 6-10knots is a perfect speed for most game species. I also want to jig for kingies etc out at places like Mayor Island, along with freediving/spearfishing.

So the only thing I see missing is a swim platform/marlin board. Would it be hard to fit on purpose built for landing game fishing and poissbly jigging from, the only issue there is not getting sucked over board. So would like to fight the fish from inside to give my body something to press against (knees) while I have the rod in a gimbal, but some how have a swim platform I can drop once I have the fish to the surface?

July 23, 2019

Im a keen game fisher, anything from mahimahi to yellow fin tuna and I love jigging for kings etc.

Is there any reason why you cannot setup a yacht with outrigger poles etc?

One thing I notice a lot of the yachting vloggers on the net make the mistake of is keeping under sail while trying to fight a marlin. Get the sails down, get the engines chasing the fish providing the swell isnt up.

Ive always wanted to give up a power boat and set up my yacht for game fishing. A marlin board truely becomes invaluable as does an insertable game chair.

Has anybody set their yacht up purposefully for this reason?

The speed of a yacht under way is the perfect speed typically for trolling lures. It just makes more sense than running engines at low RPMs, which no matter the engine, is generally not healthy long term.

Im thinking you would want to have your sails out, as simple as possible to drop at a given moment. This is where the deck hand would come in invaluable. Would using a reefed up main sail be the easiest sail to drop when fish on?

The much lower cost in fuel would also mean I get out almost every weekend.

July 23, 2019

Thanks Jon and Chariot.

I will try to find a Cavalier.

I really like retractable Marlin boards, like on the Bavaria 46.

Jon re the engine, I totally agree. A lot of noobs to power boat inboards try to run them too light to save fuel but dont realise how much build up that it is creating. Im pretty good at servicing my own outboards and use to service my merc cruiser, so I should be able to tell if its buggered. The issue is sometimes people skimp on replacing parts that last a long time, but are critical. This is my biggest fear. Obviously service paper work will help.

If we have to go up a bit in cost I dont mind as long as we are getting a bargain to negate risk of major resale loss as its money that goes towards the Cat which we are considering sailing through the Panama to sale the Bahamas etc. But this given the cost of newish Cat and the need to have solid investments to live off while away, means we are likely looking at 10-15 years before we can take this major break and semi retire. By then I will be mid to late 50s which worries me as I have back issues. So I need a certain quality of bunk for my back, as long as I keep my spine straight doing work I am usually fine. The Mrs is one strong little thing though, she is solid muscle in the right places. Makes an excellent deck hand lol.

July 23, 2019

Thanks all.

Tiller steer is just personal preference of the Mrs, the friggin thing is on auto pilot a lot of the time anyway. Although some yachts will get you a lot more wet in a tiller steer than a Wheel further aft.

So something mid 80s, get it surveyed, purchase?

I miss my uncle being here, diesel/marine mechanic. Old engines need the eye of the tiger to get them reliable imo.

July 22, 2019

We are saving to buy a performance cat, a Seawind 1160 lite to be exact, but cats arent cheap in newish state.

So in the mean time we just want something sensible for the gulf and up and down the top East of north Island between White Island and possibly Three Kings etc, but mostly the gulf, to Coromandel up to GBI.

Now Ive sailed on everything from 100ft to trailer sailers.

But I want something for $50k that wont be a pile of crap I need to spend another $25k on. I also want something not motor sailer but with all the comforts of a motor sailer.

Im wondering how small I should consider not how big I can afford as the bigger I go the more likely Im buying something well used for the money.

Im thinking something close as I can to 40ft, non tiller steer, easy access to engine, something with a solid keel so we dont list too much when under way, but something not so heavy like a lot of Bavarias that seem to need to motor a lot on lighter winds. I know, big asks.

Any advice on that price range for some bluewater coastal sailing monohull?

April 4, 2019

Ok thats a relief, but really quite a mess. So If I am asked to deliver a boat from Fiji to LA, what am I meant to do?

Is there a living to be made doing this?

If so there should be tertiary levels qualifications as mentioned so young guys can get onto this to make a living doing something we all enjoy, thats if sh*t doesnt hit the fan rofl.

April 4, 2019

It appears all the RYA courses held by the coastguard are no longer available.

What do you technically need to deliver yachts to NZ or another country etc?

January 14, 2019

Going to sell the family Caravan on water (no its not that bad, its one of the lighter ones so can sail upwind lol) and downgrade to a Mono for just myself and the Mrs.

I really want to use a LOT of the cash from the sale for our retirement fund, but at the same time I dont want to buy something old in need of work.

Im thinking 100-150K~ 32ft+, can be sailed single handed and electronically from the cockpit, must have a wheel, tillers are for dinghies. Something that can handle offshore conditions but be very comfy inside the living areas. If I had the money Id buy a Amel Super Maramu but thats 2/3 the cost of the cat haha.

I think I want something as new as possible, not some stinky old seating and moldy cabins haha.

I realise there isnt a lot for that money but if I can get as close to 20 years and younger as possible the better.

Any ideas?

January 14, 2019

It does look lovely, but I reckon this will cost more, zero emissioncy cyclic (think like those electric bikes that charge the battery when they move) electric lithium cell Cat, with Solar, wind, hydro to lithium back up, and of course a diesel genny (shun lol).

https://www.yachtingworld.com/yachts-and-gear/daedalus-d80-is-a-smart-ocean-supercat-capable-of-low-emission-long-distance-luxury-cruising-107975

January 14, 2019

Was your old tender a RIB or a SIB (soft bottom)?

There is a 2.4m Achilles SIB on trademe.

Personally, RIBs are a LOT more comfortable for longer trips, but at 2.4m its kind of negligible, 10ft and over you notice it more.

So unless you want the very best Id go with a reputable used model. Or a cheap reputable PVC like achilles or aquapro. Always keep PVC covered. If you have it uncovered or towing then hypalon all day long.

January 14, 2019

AB hypalon would be our best in NZ now, Caribe is now defunct for sales in Auck, so yeah Id go AB Hypalon. Not cheap but very worth it. Thats a small tender so shouldnt be too much. Im more a 12ft kind of guy as I spearfish from it. Ive been out from north auck to little barrier in mine and never had an issue. There is an Achilles full rib, trailer, motor auction in Canterbury at the mo. Too much hassle.

For such a small tender they have quite a sharp entry which is good for the chop, this is the glass model, which really is quieter than ally, just heavier. https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/dinghies-rowboats/inflatable/auction-1821698053.htm?rsqid=ca45a1920c4e4463b131548a18db4161

This is the Ally version, same price. And imo boats always have wiggle room on asking price.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/dinghies-rowboats/inflatable/auction-1821697694.htm?rsqid=f7dadfe750b84cb3b1429da005cce7de

If you are in NZ perm or for a while, Id just keep a look out on trademe for hypalon inflatables used, you save half the price for a 5yr old boat that has at least 20 year life span, vs poly which lasts 10 years max uncovered. I know of some Avon RIBs that going strong at 40 yrs.

For example this force 4 looks like its just been refit with new hypalon tubes (always ask who did the refit), boat, engine, trailer asking $2800, rego and wof trailer looks good, prob $1200, engine would sell for $1k. The tender for free ;-p. But in this case its a 3.2m, I dont know if you can move your davits.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/dinghies-rowboats/inflatable/auction-1908469859.htm?rsqid=f7dadfe750b84cb3b1429da005cce7de

Also search in the MOTORBOATS sections of trademe, I dont know why but some people consider a 9ft inflatable a motorboat lol. But usually larger ribs etc.

Briggs is a good brand, avon, aquapro SMR models made with hypalon are good (but most choose the cheap PVC option so be careful, you can tell by looking through the valves, I forget the colour of hypalon inside, google it).

Southern Pacific have been around a long time, not sure if they do hypalon. I wouldnt exclude a french made Zodiac cadet either. Not the PVC ones. This one is all 2014, trailer, 9.9HP Honda 4 strone and 3.4m Zodiac cadet. asking $6400. The engine is $3k new, the trailer about $2k. https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/motorboats/auction-1908328673.htm?rsqid=25f554d1d72d4db789427fce1db37395

highfield are imported by AAkron I believe. no comment.

best wishes.

January 8, 2019

This is helpful. That new Seawind 1160 looks very nice. But the older models can go for under $400k.

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/40-best-catamarans-and-trimarans-ever#page-22

January 8, 2019

Charter a few cats,find out what you like.

Fantastic Idea, a trip out to GB.

I was thinking a Lagoon 410, I like the internal layout, but they maybe one of the slow pigs you are refering too. What the Mrs likes is a cat that has that indoor/outdoor flow, nice entertaining and kitchen, dont ask me why this is important. A lot have great seating at the stern and then have those wide doorways into the lounge/dining area with the kitchen to the side, thats ideal for her.

For me I want a tramp and solar. Otherwise Im easily pleased.

Yeah sorry about the speed question, its simply I know cats are harder to get underway than monos, as you cal them pigs, I agree, so I wasnt sure which brands are pigs was more the question. I presume the one designed for Cruising the Mediterranean are more looks than performance. I kind of want both but definitely dont want something that is impossible to get going in a good wind.

January 8, 2019

We have decided we are only interested in cruising, whether its offshore or up and down the coast. Ive also considered cheaper older hulls and modifying/renovating/fixing one up.

What used models should I consider that can be sailed 1 handed but usually minimum 2?

Is it possible to sail from NZ to Fiji in a Cat? (dumb question maybe but have not owned a cat before)

How many knots generally do you need to get a Cat moving? I know they arent easy to get going.

Thanks for any tips, we are looking at buying in a year or 2.

April 17, 2017

As you all know Im looking to buy a liveaboard, Im actually considering sooner rather than later now as a marina berth is a lot cheaper than rent (got out of property market before the slippery slope).

I watched a brilliant video that explained price, performance, comfort and the more you move to one the more you lose in the others.

Id actually like a Cat that isnt needing its engine all the time, Im not after 20knots, but just movement in lighter winds. But I also want really nice levels of open feeling upstairs.

They talked about daggers a lot and rudders, also the shape of the entry. Then talked about Masts. And generally I accepted what the expert said that the racing cat masts are a waste of time on a cruiser but carbon fibre he believe was worth the weight gain/loss.

So now my question is, whats a cat that doesnt cost more than $300k that has this kind of set up? I just want some models to mull over and maybe go take a look with the Mrs. She is coming around to the idea of liveaboard. A good size cat is actually not much smaller than our apartment, yikes.

Im thinking 40ft~

April 4, 2017

yep, but but does anyone actually know the breakdown financially?

April 3, 2017

I would never look at either a holiday home or a charter yacht as a profit, I worded that badly, what I meant was does it help pay the bills for its upkeep etc?

Im thinking long term, a $250k Cat, Im wondering how much money you would get in your pocket from the charter management company etc and if its only enough to pay upkeep or it would help pay for the yacht (even though it would be freehold)

People rent their bach out during peak season to how pay for it a bit, but IMO there not profitable as such, its more a lifestyle thing. Like why have a holiday home sitting empty most of the year when you can get some good cash in peak season for it.

April 3, 2017

haha these guys doing Moreton Island (the worlds largest sand mountain) offshore of Brisbane in a 17ftr.

Anyone dived that wreck? Its been years but we use to go over their on the ferry with our 4wd longboarding (surfing) and would snorkel out to that wreck.

knowing how many VERY large white pointers are around there Im not sure Im so keen on surfing there anymore.

April 3, 2017

Also a side note, You mention a big RIB inflatable and outboard. What do you plan to do with this for the passages. Often towing is not a good option especially downwind.

Yeah, not likely going to happen on a trailer sailer though is it? Used for spearfishing. I could just use a dive yak, or I could get a high pressure floor inflatable and use a proper eletronic pump when in situ.

I like the idea of the Noelex outboard so that I can also use it somewhat for fishing, ie just changing spots or the accuracy needed to pick up a longline etc.

What type of Keel is the Noelex 22 vs 25, are they bouth swing keels? the 30 is hydraulic swing is it not? (not that it would fit in my garage).

Yep Im taking the mast into consideration.

My current tow vehicle is a a 2010 3.0 Outback. Indestructible engine, dont need dual range with an auto, the AWD is superior being full time 4wd and on top of that the 10 airbags makes her nice and safe. Ive had everything from Hiluxes to 100 series diesel. The outbacks are my favourite all round vehicle. Cheap on fuel, but will still do 0-100 in 6.5 (hey we are talking a wagon lol). I know porsche had some input on the engine. I have a friend who is a Sub Tech in Aus and he said he has never seen a broken chain and only 2 head gaskets. I also have a mate with an 04 Outback and hes done just over 1mill KMs on it. I use to tow a Bertram 25 game fishing rig and used the outback to tow that, they are not light. But I had to get a specialised tow kit for it. But id like to stick to under 22ft if possible. So the Noelex 22 is sounding like the one, seeing as I grew up with the 25 and 30, I might find some familiarity.

April 3, 2017

That said, I'd still rather have a 22ft trailer yacht than a 22ft keeler. In the case of getting caught out somewhere, worst case scenario you can tow the boat home if need be. Also means you can travel to BOI, Marlborough etc without needing a week off work for the journey.

Bingo, thats exactly my reason. Im not stuck to one area, I can do BOI, Gulf, Taupo etc etc.

Some drop keels and ballast systems must be better/more weighty than others?

April 3, 2017

Gulf isn't blue water though.

No, not about that, more about my training wheels in a safe environment before I take on a much larger yacht in the future so I feel Ive got a good grounding on sailing solo.

I expect to push myself further and further out, but that Colville can get a hefty swell through it so I think its a good training ground when Im ready, especially if the wind gets up.

Brings back memories of launching my tinny from fletchers bay and shooting across the barrier, oh boy thats an adrenaline rush. Didnt have these stabicraft type pontoon boats back then haha. And as a spearo/fisherman Im well aware of the size of some of the Makos and White Pointers coming through there :-) Love my sharks.

April 3, 2017

Twosail, why a trailer sailor??any particular reason.

.

Simply cost, I have garage space for one.

Even a cheap swing mooring is $100 a week? Am I ignorant there or is that about right?

Dont get me wrong, I dont like the idea of not having a lead torpedo under me haha. Thats why Im looking at the various ballasts and dagger systems they use. The Noelex design seems to be a good one.

Of the trailer sailers, which would be the least tender?

Also I I want a small RIB with outboard for my spearfishing.

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