Interview with Rob Shaw

[Guest]

For those of you who would like to read the interview again later on down the track when the interview is no longer on the home page here you go. I would also be interested to hear what your thoughts are on Robs Answers.

 

Crew.org.nz: Who first introduced you to sailing and when did you decide that you enjoyed sailing?

 

Rob Shaw: My first introduction to sailing was through family summer boating holidays around the Hauraki Gulf and Bay of Islands. Like many Kiwi kids I was fortunate to be able to spend a lot of time mucking around in boats or helping out on the family boat when it came out for maintenance. I thought it was all good fun then and still do now.

 

When I was 10 my family moved from Auckland’s North Shore to the Bay of Islands where we lived at Waitangi, about 100m from the beach. I already enjoyed great access to boats and the beach but this really made it so much easier. Now I wasn’t reliant on a parent or anyone to get out for a sail, so that’s what I did. Weekends, holidays and after school were all sailing time in one form or another, with friends that were equally enthusiastic to get out.

 

I had a part-time job on the beach renting out hire cats that were always in hot demand with the tourists in those days so I spent as much time sailing beach cats as I did a P class, possibly more. Cats and monohulls were all just sailboats to us and all good fun.

 

I loved spending my time mucking around in boats, but it’s true that there weren’t a lot of alternatives, such as shopping malls or skateboard parks to hang out at.

 

Crew.org.nz: What were your reasons behind going into boat building and creating your own company?

 

Rob Shaw: The business interest no doubt resulted from growing up in a family where our father had run his own business for many years, and I saw first hand the hard work but also the opportunities that brought with it. It looked attractive to have some flexibility and autonomy that can be possible running your own business. Boatbuilding seamed a logical direction to go to indulge my interest in boats. I looked hard at sail making also but thought boatbuilding was the way for me.

 

As it turned out I was extremely fortunate that I went into apprenticeship with Max Carter and through his passion for boats and things marine I received an invaluable grounding in the marine industry. I had a strong interest in the design of boats and the science of sailing and Max was a great guy to foster that interest. I spent many hours discussing design with Max and others. Initially my interest was focused on understanding design to improve my sailing performance, but the more I understood the more I wanted to know.

 

Crew.org.nz: What prompted you to approach the sport boat philosophy from the complete other end of the spectrum i.e. a big dinghy rather than a small keel boat?

 

Rob Shaw: My approach to designing the sportboat came from many influences. I wouldn’t claim it as a great innovation, more a case of a change in direction to where design/fashion was heading at the time. We had previously seen relatively light boats that were sportboats in their own right many years earlier in some of the Jim Young designs and boats like the Gorilla Biscuits. Farr’s first foray into keel boats was a great example of a light boat that could match it with the heavy displacement, higher power boats of its generation.

 

I felt that to be a yacht designer the place to start was to design and build my own boat. As many people have said, why should anyone else back you and your design if you don’t do it yourself. With my boatbuilding experience the engineering and construction was also part of the challenge to build what I hoped to be a good boat and compete.

 

Designing and building a sportboat was a logical place to start as it was affordable. My brief to myself was for a fun, fast, affordable boat. After graduating the P class I moved onto the Laser and I really didn’t enjoy it at all. I thought it was the boat to sail as they had a competitive fleet but I could never overcome being physically too small to effectively sail the boat in a good breeze. I persisted with this for a while, and then tried some keel boats but I yearned for something more exciting. I had had a great time sailing multihulls, from beach cats to Tornados, so I took some inspiration from that too. It’s a common problem that dinghies and light boats in general are very crew-weight dependant. So I wanted a light boat that could overcome that problem - a real value-for-money boat that was resilient and safe, and with sails that would last more than a weekend’s racing.

 

So I looked at the existing fleet of sportboats and thought they were good boats. But how to design something that was better for me? I decided it wasn’t all about outright speed, although the boat needed to be fast. It also needed to be a lot of fun, especially more fun than I had had in the Laser. To me it was all about efficiency, reducing weight which enabled a reduction in sail plan and sheet loads. That way I wouldn’t need a big car to tow it either, another bonus.

 

I remembered reading about the Lexcen/Miller designed 18 foot skiff Taipan and how that boat was a departure in concept from the heavy, big-crew, high-sail-area style 18 footers of the time. So the idea is not new; it is a cycle that yacht design has been through before and surely will again.

 

Crew.org.nz: What are your views on the Volvo open 70’s and the move to a one design?

 

Rob Shaw: The 70s have been great boats and have been good for the development of the design and engineering of big monohulls. I think we have been very fortunate to have had them but the Volvo race is clearly struggling for numbers and has been for a long time now. Sure, the 70s are expensive boats and that is an issue but I don’t believe that is the real problem with the event.

 

My impressions of the Whitbread race were that it was a great adventure as much as it was a race; now I just see a race. With all the other big yachting events that have come along that makes it harder to stand out from the crowd. Without the adventure element it must be hard to get it into the mainstream media, and I guess that’s where you need to be if you are sponsor dependant. As far as cost reduction goes, surely the big-ticket items are the number of stopovers and the wages bill, followed by the boat, rig and sails. I think the new one-design boat is more about levelling the playing field than reducing the cost.

 

It’s a blow to the development of boat design and the people involved but that will still go on in the Volvo and outside the Volvo. It’s a cycle, it won’t last for ever. If it saves the event then it’s a good thing.

 

Crew.org.nz: When are you going to build a multi?

 

Rob Shaw: I don’t see a multi on the horizon at this stage. If someone comes to me for a multi, then I’ll be keen to look into it.

 

Crew.org.nz: Canting keel, water ballast or is it a mixture of both?

 

Rob Shaw: Canting keels have really made water ballast largely redundant. I still think water ballast has its place and a part to play in both fixed keel and canting boats, however.

 

Crew.org.nz: What are the performance benefits of a canting keel?

 

Rob Shaw: Essentially canters improve the power-to-weight ratio that can be achieved with a fixed keel.

 

Crew.org.nz: Is there a cut of in terms of capital cost vs length of boat where canting does not make any sense given the expense?

 

Rob Shaw: Without doing a study on it I expect that canters will have a performance advantage at just about any size. We have seen them dominate in the range from mini 650s to 100 foot maxis. Who knows what happens when you get beyond 30 metres though, and I’m not sure there would be any point in terms of performance. If you’re contemplating a 30 metre boat but want it to go faster than a regular 30 metre boat, just stretch it 40 metres, right.

 

Crew.org.nz: What are your preferences regarding canting mechanisms i.e. manual, hydraulic, electro mechanical or is that dependent upon the boat?

 

Rob Shaw: Horses for courses here. I think 30 feet is the upper limit for a manual system. If the boat is a day-sailer then I would look at electric; if it’s doing longer voyages then hydraulic, or electric-hydraulic.

 

Crew.org.nz: What did you do to make Karma Police such an effective upwind boat for its size yet lightning off the wind?

 

Rob Shaw: There is no one silver bullet here. It’s about balance, power to weight, hull form, appendages, rig, sails and trim. The Karma was a very good performer upwind and I suspect it had more in it if I had the budget to do some development on the appendages that were in the boat. But regardless it was a good package and a real joy to sail; any time you’re sailing a boat fast and it is in the groove and trucking it always feels good.

 

My experience with the canters is they just feel like that more of the time; it’s easier to get the boat in the sweet spot. It feels like sailing on a bigger boat, they just go faster. We also had an excellent crew on that boat who sailed a lot together and shared a real understating of what the boat was about. We all learnt together how to get the best out of the boat, how much board to have down on what wind angle and boat speed etc. We all learnt from each other what worked and what didn’t, so the guys all knew how to set the boat up and had a lot of fun doing it.

 

Crew.org.nz: If you were to rebuild a revised version of Karma Police what would you do differently?

 

Rob Shaw: There are a few subtle changes I would make if I did it again. You can always spend more money but two things I would do, for not too huge increase in cost, would be to build the boat lighter and place the rudder under the hull rather than on the transom.

 

Crew.org.nz: If someone was to write you a blank check and ask you to build a new national one design boat, what type, size and design elements would you use and why?

 

Rob Shaw: That’s quite a broad concept. I’m not sure there is a need for such a boat and to produce a boat that has broad enough appeal would mean a lot of compromises, so I would question how many people want to commit to a boat that is a compromise rather than well suited to their individual needs. The number of new boats built in NZ over the last 10 or so years for the local market is very few.

 

I don’t see that trend changing in hurry unless we find a way to address the ballooning cost of new boats while retaining the new technologies and features that attract people to new boats in the first place. There is some scope to build boats offshore where some costs such as labour are reduced but that doesn’t work for all boats and simply reducing the labour costs doesn’t necessarily equal better value.

 

Crew.org.nz: At the start of the year you released a number of new designs. What was the reason behind moving into the cruiser racer design?

 

Rob Shaw: All the new designs I’ve been working on are for clients and designed to meet the client brief. Like any designer I am ever optimistic that each new design developed to a given brief might represent the boat that someone else has been thinking of and so provide an opportunity for someone else to realise a boat that meets their needs.

 

Crew.org.nz: After placing well in the SSANZ Round North Island event, do you have more plans to do shorthanded sailing in the future?

 

Rob Shaw: It was an objective all along to be able to do some serious short-handed racing in the 30 footer and the Round North Island race is an iconic race which was the ultimate event to do in that boat. I really enjoy the short-handed stuff and you learn a lot about the boat and yourself doing it. I was fortunate to have a great sailor in Ben Costello sail with me in the RNI who is not only an outstanding all-round sailor but fiercely competitive.

 

I would love to go back and do that race again, but promised myself it would be a bigger boat next time. Other racing that interest me are the Melbourne-Osaka and the global ocean race, although there were clearly some issues with the running of that race last time. Ultimately it comes down to time and money and for now I’m busy designing boats so any of those ideas are on hold.

 

Crew.org.nz: A few years ago you were making noise of a world speed record attempt or a C-class cat project. With wing sails largely de-mystified are either of these projects on the horizon?

 

Rob Shaw: No I’m not currently working on either of these projects now but I have some ideas that I would be trying to progress if I found myself with some spare time.

 

Crew.org.nz: Where do you see boat design going in the next 10 years?

 

Rob Shaw: Crystal ball gazing is always tough but I think we could see some progress in materials and production methods that could have a positive effect on cost and performance.

I see massive opportunities for efficient powerboat design taking from the efficiencies developed in sailboats. Sure there have been some advancements there but I see opportunity for significant change in concept for cruisers. I think foiling technology could also be put to good use for these boats.

 

Crew.org.nz: What does the future hold for you and Shaw Yacht Designs?

 

Rob Shaw: For now I am busy designing some new boats; the first of these will hit the water this summer. Over the next 12 months we would like to move to establish the 650 class in the USA and Europe and progress is being made on those initiatives now. After that who knows, maybe a bigger one-design class with an international flavour.

 

If you would like to look at Rob's yacht designs or ask him some questions if you’re interested in getting a new boat built then head over to http://shawyachtdesign.com/

[Adrianp 120]

Nice work Stephen. Thanks for asking my question!