Frank
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Posts posted by Frank
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Summer
in MarineTalk
Is that a Space Elevator in the foreground
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Decided to model my fathers first boat which as a youngster started my love of the sea and sailing. Dad said she was a Great Lakes Bonny design but the interweb reports nothing on that so my guess is she was marconi rigged Seabird Yawl (oxymoron I know
with a modified cabin. The Seabird is the correct length and matches her hard chine hull form so I'll do a mash-up from this baseline, a few vague memories and the partial image on an old photo. laminating in the vertical plane should be fun for a change.
The recent purchase of a thicknesser has kickstarted this half model binge, so much easier when you can create any thickness at will.
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On 6/01/2024 at 8:36 PM, LBD said:
Productive (3 day) weekend...
1)Installed a 30L Quick Hot water system, works a treat, nice to have hot water on tap and a warm fresh water wash at the end of the day.
2) Removed the stbd genoa track cleaned and primed the deck then replaced the track on a series of Micarta/Tufnell pads all well sealed on Butyl/mastic tape with large washers beneath the deck to spread the load. The gaps in the packers allows the water to drain through... all in all, a good watertight outcome. The fasteners inside the back of the galley cupboards were a challenge to get at. Next 3 tracks are easy to access..
3) Made a celebratory dent in a new bottle of rum as a reward for the above effort.
Ooooof ! nice work, the Tufnell looked good too
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Nice ! and jealous !
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On 1/01/2024 at 4:23 PM, Addem said:
Too right. I'd live to have a few of my past boats. How much would I pay though...dunno. it'd be interesting to know how many hours are involved.
You should be able to find your past yachts here, the available range is vast, (167 pages) expect to pay north of $385 US, the shipping to NZ could be expensive .
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28 minutes ago, Deep Purple said:
I presented a half model of Sundreamer i had made to the squadron a few years back.
I have pondered the same question but could not think of a good way to capture a multihull the Sundreamer model looks great though , nice work !
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On 2/01/2024 at 11:23 AM, Saltynuts said:
The big head scratcher is what would a half hull of a catamaran look like and would it cost twice as much???
Or 1/4 as much because you are only building half of a half of the boat
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Likewise I had to google that product but It was useful because I'm pondering getting an electric OB at some stage too. I do like the name though and its almost worth the purchase just for the bragging rights. When I was trying to wrap my head around the van LiFePo battery I found this diagram of the charge profile "helped me with my thinking", as you can see its relatively flat compared to other chemistries, my interpretation was
Charging: At 13.6V the battery is starting to charge from near empty (10%)
Discharge: At 13.6V the battery has just started to deliver the useable 80% of its available capacity.
This site here has some very good information
https://www.solacity.com/how-to-keep-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-happy/
Here are their Take Home Lessons for LiFePo to prolong life
Take-Home Lessons
Now that we know how lithium-ion batteries work, what they like and dislike, and how they ultimately fail, there are some pointers to take away. We have made a little list below. If you are going to do nothing else, please take note of the first two, they have by far the most effect on the overall time you will get to enjoy your lithium-ion battery! Taking heed of the others will help too, to make your battery last even longer.
To sum up, for long and happy LFP battery life, in order of importance, you should be mindful of the following:
- Keep the battery temperature under 45 Centigrade (under 30C if possible) – This is by far the most important!!
- Keep charge and discharge currents under 0.5C (0.2C preferred)
- Keep battery temperature above 0 Centigrade when discharging if possible – This, and everything below, is nowhere near as important as the first two
- Do not cycle below 10% – 15% SOC unless you really need to
- Do not float the battery at 100% SOC if possible
- Do not charge to 100% SOC if you do not need it
- KISS (Keep It Simple Smart-person) – avoid series-connected lithium batteries, avoid heated batteries unless absolutely needed
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31 minutes ago, K4309 said:
There was a guy in the BOI doing half models commercially. But that was maybe 15 years ago now.
I got one done of our boat as a gift for my father. Was about $250 ish at the time. I didn't have line drawings so had to take detailed profile photos of the hull out of the water. He sent me approximated line drawings from the photos, which I reckon were top notch.
That is very good value, I found a place on line that looked to be in the caribbean somewhere, they had a long list of designs for which they would ship you a half model but they were $450 US sans freight. One or two on their list that I was familiar with looked to have basic detail errors though.
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Yep, its surprising how much you can establish with a tape measure basic and data such as LOA, beam, draft etc. Then photos can give you a good approximation of sheer line, bow/stem/keel/rocker/rudder etc. I paste the photos into 2D CAD and trace over them, a camera does create distortion but you can compensate somewhat. The only aspect that is hard to really nail are the frame profiles/sections etc but the transom is a known and you can wing from there.
The result wont stand close scrutiny if someone has the drawings and gets out the the calipers but its close enough to be instantly recognized as the design in question. There are ways to take off the frame profiles, which would be needed if you wanted to build a copy and did not have the original drawings, that would have to be a very old boat I would imagine. Back in the day apparently a lot of vessels started out as a half model and then the builder just ripped into construction of the full size boat taking measurements from the model, no drawings just a lot of experience and a practiced eye, they probably still do it that way in less developed areas of the world.
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I decided that Kuaka needed, a companion flying off the port bow
Another here is my carpenter 29 in kauri with Mahogany WL, the backboard is from an old oak cupboard.
The basic process is straightforward and anyone who can use a jigsaw, plane, spokeshave and sandpaper will find it easy. If you have a lines plan just xerox the WL sections at 1/12 scale and glue to the laminations with spray on Ados F2. Cut them out with a jigsaw or if you have one a bandsaw, then stack and glue them in correct order bread and butter style (Modified PVA is good) From there rough it down to the intersections with plane and spoke shave but don't quite loose the junction lines, cut out one or two cross sections say midship and near the bow to use as checking templates as you go. Ease down to the final material removal checking for fairness with template and Mk1 eyeball. Painted versions have the advantage that you can use builders bog to correct any mistakes. As for painting well just do what you would on your full size boat, its the same process. Use Tamiya model masking tape as it seals well at the edge and gives a nice crisp line.
Kuaka took so long because I could not get the lines plan so I had to make several visits to the wreck to take measurements, and then draw it. Of course as soon as you get home you think of all the measurements you forgot, luckily it hasn't had an excavator put through it yet but as there are some rather posh estates overlooking the foreshore there I don't think that will be far off. I have never sailed the boat but have a sentimental connection because its been a feature in the local estuary since the early 1960's its the earliest yacht I can remember seeing. Its a sad end but now at least her memory is immortalized in the club lunch room
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4 hours ago, Saltynuts said:
Yeah I hear ya. There must be a lot of hours go into those. I wonder what upper price point they would still sell. People get very attached to their boats and fiscal responsibility would have limited influence over a purchase like that. Would make a fantastic present from a significant other...
Anyway geat job 👍
Actually you just jogged a memory from 1980 ish, a colleagues parents had a Towson 32 and he was selling wooden half models at a quite reasonable price but he would not divulge the manufacturing technique. Later I heard he had made a pattern and then reproduced them on a friends Copy Router. I'm unfamiliar with that device but I wonder if it similar to that used for wooden propellers, they are ingenious
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2 hours ago, Saltynuts said:
Wow!! There is a business opportunity there..
Alas the labour content is too high
however it could work if you modelled it in 3D and printed it although it would still require quite a bit of finishing and a backboard. A previous place I worked at had a large format 3D printer and a contractor who was a real pro with Solidworks. I'd done a half model of our Hood 38 and needed a copy for a partner so he scanned and printed it, I got the impression he put in quite a few hours to turn the point cloud into a printable file though (the one below is a 3D print)
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On 22/12/2023 at 2:31 PM, Frank said:
Building a half model cos I'm bored with Netflix, the actual full size vessel is local and now beached, its still largely intact but will probably be scrapped. I'm told it is a sister ship to John Guzzwell's Trekka or at least shares a lot of its DNA. Trekka was from the board of Laurent Giles, circa 1958 or a little later. His designs are now with a trust and Trekka is in a museum in Canada. Neither organisation could provide lines so I measured what I could from the wreck and guesstimated the rest, I will find some recycled native timber for the backboard. The design has an open transom, reverse shear and a turtle deck, perhaps ahead of its time for the 1950's ?
The new Kuaka is ready to be hung, the old one alas is done for.
The backboard is Honduras Mahogany from some old building, it had a gorgeous grain and was nicer to work with than Sapelle. I need to do the Alan Wright Tracker at some stage I don't suppose anyone has a lines drawing ?
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I would get a small hammer and do a tap check on the outer hull skin around the keel, rotten wood or voids will sound quite different to areas of sound skin. (watch a you tube video on how its done there are bound to be a few) . With the external skin ruled out and feeling better already
get an old screwdriver, sharpen the end to a point (we used to call it a podger, don't know why) and poke it gently into any suspect areas from the inside, any rotten or dozy wood, will be immediately apparent compared to sound timber as the point will sink in relatively easily. Furry timber that are still firm is likely to be fundamentally sound and small areas of genuine rot can be locally chiselled or ground out then filled with epoxy. A grizzled old sea dog once told me that sea water is a dilute disinfectant and helps preserves wood but fresh water is the enemy where it collects.
You will need to dry out the wood before any application of epoxy glue or preservative etc and this will be underway already but it can be accelerated with a dehumidifier just keep any eye on it as you go so things don't get too dry. Post some pics after the investigation is complete, plenty of experienced folks on this site that can offer advice.
Don't despair as its all fixable !
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On 14/08/2023 at 5:34 AM, Zozza said:
Correct. Structural floors will be glassed in now that the bilge water tank has been removed.
Apologies for stating the obvious but do use a solid wood core for those floors
. Incidentally our Hood 38 has a fully encapsulated keel and there are no floors as far as I can tell but then the hull thickness is in the order of 40 mm or more at the turn of the bilge. She was built in 1986 and has spent most of her life offshore, last time I checked the keel was still there
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On 16/05/2023 at 12:36 PM, Psyche said:
look for even plys and plenty of them, Joubert Gaboon is reliable and dont worry about price as its not a giant Spencer! Dont be afraid to go though the pile and pick out the pretty faces. Just make sure you coat the end grain with a couple of good coats of epoxy, in the interior varnish on the faces is fine, no need to epoxy the lot unless you really want to. the only there caveat is any potential water traps absolutely need to be epoxied. Some people roll a few coats of epoxy on the whole sheet before cutting, uses a bit more but much easier to finish on the flat and less tearout
Agree with all above, IMO Joubert Gaboon (Okume) is of excellent quality and is easy to work with its also less work to finish as it has a tight grain. Meranti is OK but heavier and more coarse grained with a tendency to splinter on the edge so I much prefer Gaboon.
There is a lot of absolute rubbish out there and some of it not so cheap either so don't muck around and buy quality from a reputable supplier. I use Plytech but there are others just as good. Last time I was there buying 6mm Okoume for the camper van I got lucky and scored the stack skin as a freebie
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Full disclosure I'm no paint expert, my comment about using 2K topcoat on an epoxy base coat are purely based on personal experience and observation of problems other club members had with this approach.
Essentially what I experienced was that the topcoat degraded over time by dulling and becoming somewhat chalky in the sun (after 3 seasons). It was more a cosmetic failure than anything but still disheartening after the work and cost involved in a re-paint. It became a bit of a running narrative in the club as several boats suffered the same problem and needed repainting. Our tame professional painter at the time muttered that he had seen it before and did not understand why counter staff at various suppliers still promoted the system. I stress it was OK inside the boat but just not on external surfaces. My totally non-scientific take on it was that the epoxy was interacting somehow triggered by UV and/or heat. Others might have gotten away with it so you pays your money you take your chances I suppose but I would stick to what the manufacturer recommends and at least you might have some comeback if there is an issue. if you need the epoxy base coat for other reasons then I would cover it with the 2K polyurethane primer first.
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All of what K4309 said and I would not apply 2K polyurethane directly over epoxy undercoats on external surfaces, use the system undercoat as a barrier between the two.
International Perfection is a good system but also talk to these guys
https://www.protectivepaints.co.nz/contact-us
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Very Sucky Motor ?
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On 12/07/2023 at 10:11 AM, harrytom said:
And would all this building be going on if Dalton/Etnz didn't go to Spain??
Mmmmm... I understand the antipathy towards Dalton but I think that might be drawing a slightly long bow
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Building a half model cos I'm bored with Netflix, the actual full size vessel is local and now beached, its still largely intact but will probably be scrapped. I'm told it is a sister ship to John Guzzwell's Trekka or at least shares a lot of its DNA. Trekka was from the board of Laurent Giles, circa 1958 or a little later. His designs are now with a trust and Trekka is in a museum in Canada. Neither organisation could provide lines so I measured what I could from the wreck and guesstimated the rest, I will find some recycled native timber for the backboard. The design has an open transom, reverse shear and a turtle deck, perhaps ahead of its time for the 1950's ?
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18 hours ago, motorb said:
Same here, but I also find bicycles to be far more dangerous than motorbikes when riding in traffic. Ebikes are an improvement in power and stability but the brakes are still sorely lacking... and while pedaling might be hot work, my Ducati has a habit of burning my leg while stopped in traffic....
The fact is cyclists and motorcyclists are exposed to the exact same hazard around town yet only one is expected to be dressed for the event and yet they are the best capable to get out of a tight spot quickly and aside from licensing they often have specific training alongside that too.. One group is considered deserving of being hit by an suv or truck, yet the other gets special treatment and demands a special societal pedestal on the road. I could go on, but the double standard in how cyclists and motorcyclists are treated is just ridiculous.
Off topic rant aside, I agree with those saying the perception of safety is certainly variable, but a lot of that is circumstantial. In the case of sailing, it depends on both the nature of how we sail, and the actual design of our vessels. That is a decision best made by a (capable) skipper as circumstance dictates.
As for helmet protection levels, even the motorcycle world is full of contradictory evidence and outdated standards despite decades of legal mandates to wear them, so I can see how the sailing world would have a similar problem.
I rode a push bike to work for years and got knocked off twice, in one instance the front end of the bike was torn off, in another I did a fwd roll over the bonnet at 32 km/h. In each case the helmets were ruined , the offending cars were in the wrong but its academic when your life is at risk, I gave up cycle commuting thereafter as I figured someone was sending me a message
Not sure I would still have all my marbles if it hadn't been for the helmet.
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On 8/07/2023 at 9:02 PM, CarpeDiem said:
No there isn't.
The evidence clearly shows that the public don't want there tax money spent on witch hunts. The public expect that companies follow the law. The public expects that companies have plans and systems in place.
In these cases these companies did not consult with GNS and did not provide adaquate warning to their customers of the risks.
We don't need to spend millions checking companies are doing the right thing when we're already spending millions dealing with the incidents. What we need is for businesses to start following the exceptionally clear, we'll documented law and stop cutting corners so that the incidents stop.
I don't want my tax money spent making sure a company has the appropriate safety measures in place. I want the company directors to be spending their own money, paying the same outfit that Worksafe would pay, to ensure that they are compliant.
That's the outcome I would like to see.
Mmmmm, I can relate to the sentiments but I cant see human nature changing anytime soon.
sea lice / jellyfish larvae / something itchy BoI
in MarineTalk
Posted
Same problem cruising in Fiji last year, apparently they are tiny jelly fish larvae and almost invisible, yes they itch like the devil for a few days, we used Soov ointment which helped a bit.